Article in Weekend FT

Debates on electric vehicles, as with batteries, are polarised. Sparks flew in Germany last week. The Institute for Economic Research (Ifo) claimed that an electric vehicle produces more carbon emissions than a diesel car. Volkswagen claimed the opposite: its electric Golf produces less emissions than the diesel version. Both claims are true.

A relatively high weighting of coal generation in Germany’s power mix is the foundation of the Ifo’s claim. Add to that the energy intensity of making the batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 used in their comparison. Adjusting for that means a Mercedes diesel actually produces less carbon over its lifetime. Lex calculates that, based on current generation profiles, the same holds true for the US and China. Both rely on coal-powered electricity. Only in economies using more non fossil fuels, such as the UK and France, does large scale adoption of electric vehicles reduce carbon sufficiently.

A vehicle’s battery is equally important. The Ifo estimates the Model 3’s 75 kWh batteries add between 11 and 15 tonnes of carbon to the vehicle’s total. That equals 73 to 98 grammes of CO2 per km over its life. Where the batteries come from, and the energy inputs, matters. So does battery capacity. The e-Golf compares favourably to its diesel sibling. Its battery of 36 kWh is around half that of the Tesla.

The argument for electric vehicles in big cities is clear: fewer particulates and cleaner air. But in economies with higher reliance on fossil fuels, especially dirty coal, the climate benefits of electric vehicles are hazier.

Very interesting. But, do you know if the figures for the diesel car also include the carbon costs associated with the exploration, extraction, refining and distribution of the diesel? This is often missed out when these comparisons are made and it would appear to have probably have been missed out here.

Last edited by Tigger on 28th Apr 2019 8:10 pm. Edited 1 time in total

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Couple the latter with "polls" usually orchestrated on the abomination that is social media, and you can make statistics skew towards pretty much anything that your hearts desire, lapped up by gullible members of the public, who are too busy signalling their virtue and Eco-credentials, or whatever else is in fashion this week to separate reality from twitter land etc etc.....

Not to forget the average family consumes another 500 litres of water per week to produce electricity in the form of steam. A lot of water is used to keep coal dust down. Some countries would be better off using the water to grow food.

Down under 3000 of us die to coal dust related heath issues each year & miners black lung disease is still a killer in the 21 century. These costs to the community need to be factored in.

There are massive volumes of ash tailings from power stations with heavy metals like mercury. This waste problem has never been addressed properly. Often leeching into the environment & waterways.

If you have a smart grid, electric cars can be plugged in & will be charged when there is excess green electricity. Over time more green electricity will come online. Petrol you can only burn once. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

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Fossil fuel cars have their starter battery replaced every 4 to 5 years, but I didn't see a cost factor for this! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Its the big picture that counts. What about the CO2 from ships transporting the crude oil - huge

and there is hydrogen or not ....

 Jules

It takes 10 calories of fossil fuel to get 1 calorie of food on the table. Food for thought so to speak! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

The answer to electric cars is huge nuclear power stations, but they are definitely not on the green lobby list  my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Accept for the vast amount of water they need in mining as well as in cooling towers. Down under we have water from tailings running into river systems.

Some years ago some of the nuclear power plants in France shut down as the weather was too hot.

A bit of an ongoing mess in Fukushima! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

All countries make mistakes as to the placing of the nuclear plants however they are carbon free in their production of power, eventually the waste will be able to be fired to the sun thus increasing its life.
Placing the power stations on sea shores is for emergency cooling, however it's best not to place them on ocean shores especially if that ocean is subject to tsunamis and the power supplies to the emergency cooling are not protected to the worst case scenario which needs constant updating regarding sea levels my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Firing waste into the sun is not an option either. It takes about a hundred times the energy to fire something to the sun than away from it. The last satellite to orbit the sun had to do half a dozen round trips of Venus & Earth to be slingshot towards it. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Australia only has one nuclear reactor, for research & medical use. But like the poor choice of location of other reactors around the world, we decided to join the club & build our reactor on a fault line! We do get earthquakes here.

We do have regular accidents here which they do their best to cover up, recently some workers were exposed to radiation. Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Whilst the idea of electric cars seems great where is the power coming from ?

Whilst the following was originally put in place to deal with power surges I believe these are going to be much greater demand as Electric cars come on grid.
Currently if we had 10 million electric cars according to a statistician we would need another 20+ hinkley points

so here's our current support, absolutely shocking

Worth a watch, there are now 25 of these sites and according to published statistics one site alone used 978000 litres of diesel.

So all of those greenies running around proud in their electric plugin think about where the power may be coming from ! Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

oldgeezer wrote:

So all of those greenies running around proud in their electric plugin think about where the power may be coming from !

That's the problem with libtard, left-leaning green hippies that masquerade as Eco-zealots......they don't think. At all. Ever. Let alone the bigger picture. Hence the nickname of their vehicle of choice as a Toyota Pious!

oldgeezer wrote:

Currently if we had 10 million electric cars according to a statistician we would need another 20+ hinkley points

Found that statistician.......



 Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......