Yes all good advice, I think I'll start with that connector and then look for other common aspects.

As with most cars a big issue is just getting access. My dashboard has a crack along it and have been thinking of replacing it. This might be a good option to get better access and solve that issue.

However, I live on the south coast so have just been sea swimming and now a cold drink sitting in the sun listening to the cricket is my plan

The battle might be lost but the war continues!

first thing to do is check the flap connector plug this is located just above the pollen filter in drivers footwell if I remember correctly its green, these often get knocked out or moved when people replace the pollen filter

Hello,

An update, the green flap connector is all ok and was in place, thanks for the location. That is connector C23AE.

I had the new heater matrix turn up today so I could see where all the motors are and the wiring, so for £38 all very useful. Also have a new loom if I need to change it.

I took out the PTC heater out of this unit and swopped it over with mine, bit of a struggle getting the old one out. I had to undo the central tunnel (where the gear stick lives) securing bolts and after that it wiggled out ok.

Then I put the power on and the PTC heater error had gone yippee but the other 5 blend motor errors were still there

I tired the relay again and swopped it for a new one and then took it out totally and I had the same sent of 5 errors each time.

So I think it is perhaps one blend motor which is broken and causing a signal interruption in the wiring or a damage to the loom as nothing from connector C23AE seems to work.

Next plan is to swop each Blend motor in turn to see if that solves it. Issue is with access on the drivers side, so I might need to take out the knee air bag and perhaps in instrument cluster to get access.

I have removed the motors on the passenger side (RHD car) and moved the flaps manually so that I now can get cold air on the left hand side so I know the AC is working well. The Right flap is the other way so only hot air.

If you are interested so far I have replaced the Motor Resistor (new), a new controller (second hand) and a new heater matrix (second hand) so totally about £80 ish which I don't think is too much.

The fight continues

I still believe that all those motors would not fail at once. (and Heater!!)

Looking at Wiring Diagram, only 2 possible paths will give the common fault.

C23AE socket 4 should be receiving an earth from G3D134-1 via junction S2D134A and sending it via C23AF pin 4 to junction S2D134D (distributes to all motor models)

C23AE socket 1 should be receiving 12v from Fuse 39 Battery Junction Box via connector C21D (pin 12) and sending it via C23AF pin 1 to junction S2BB39 (distributes to all motor modules)

These are straight forward power supplies and can be checked with a multimeter.

I suggest that you start by checking the earth and 12v are present at the Green Plug, then the Junctions.

Click image to enlarge

Hello,

Yes that is a very good idea, I can get to the C23AE side ok to check the ground and power. If that is ok then I know its with the loom or the motors. If not I know its the other way which hopefully will have easier access.

I also have a spare loom now so I could plug that in with the motors from my spare and if the errors go away I know where it is.

Sadly looking at the workshop manual for the drivers side it talks about taking the steering column out

Thanks for pointing me in a better direction.

Hello well another few hours trying to sort this out and all I can say is

I have done what all good DIYers should do, I've given up for the day and gone to sulk whilst watching the TV and eating comfort food!!

So I checked connector C23AE and the ground continuity (pin4) was good and the voltage (pin 1) was in the tens of mVolt region. I'm not sure what voltage these motors work at but I thought this was a little low, so I went back to the relay 5 and fuse 39. I swopped the relay with one I knew was working and checked the fuse, again, which was still good. The voltage at the fuse was also in the mVolt range.

Does any one know if this is correct or too low? Perhaps a kind soul could nip outside and check the voltage on fuse 39 for me?

I took the loom and all the motors from the second-hand matrix unit, I got last week, and exactly the same results.

So it's not the loom and its not the motors, this would suggest that it is in the battery junction box?

The power from fuse 39 goes to connect C1BB01A, pin 124. Nothing else seems to be broken so, again, I can't see that connector being an issue.

It then goes to connector C21D on the battery side and C21C on the other side (pin 12). Pin 7 on this connector goes to the four pin connector for the blower unit, C2H102 (pin 4). The blower works ok and Pin4 is at 12Volts which again would suggest that connector C21C is ok.

So why is nothing working??

So I can drive the car I used a long flat blade screwdriver and levered the flaps open on the temperature motors (M204 & M203) so I get cold A/C air into the cabin.

Not sure what to look at next. Any help /advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sadly I've been looking at the circuits again and perhaps the relay is good but it is not being energised? That signal seems to come from C1BB01A pin 38 and that comes from the Central Junction Box. If there is an issue with that I guess I've got no hope!

Perhaps I could short the relay so see if the correct voltage goes onto the connect C21C pin 12 and if that reaches the motors and if that sorts it out?

More comfort food needed.

I think that you have found where to look for your problem.

It looks as if the Central Electronics Module has decided that you do not need power. It should be sending you an earth to work the relay via the route that you have described.

We need to see if there is a description of Climate Control actions in the Repair Manual.
(I will look later)

I see no problem in either supplying the Relay with that earth to make it work (the safest option), just be careful that there are no shorts or nasties before you attempt to supply (fused)12v directly to the motors.
Isolate the Electronics module from your testing as you could cause damage.
Try not to bridge the relay unless you are sure of the outcome.

Click image to enlarge

Hmmm my simple plan was to put a link across the open terminals and so send 12volts to the battery side of fuse 39. My assumption is that if I overload the circuit then fuse 39 will blow.

However, your reply seems to suggest that would be a bad idea?

Would a link from an earth point to one of the other relay terminals be the way to go.

My understanding of a relay is that two large voltage/amp terminals are normally open. Then the other two terminals are connected by a coil of wire, when they see a smaller voltage they energise the coil causing a magnetic field which caused the normally open terminals to close.

So I should apply an earth to the normally closed terminals to cause the coil to magnetise?

Sorry for my simplistic view of electricity

Again thanks for your help.

I am being very careful as the various circuits and supplies are not straight forward and are part of the Climate Control System. The Climate Control explanation starts at page 1628 of the Repair Manual.

You will have noted that the Motors are contained in a module and controlled and stepped by by signals from the Automatic Temperature Control which is in turn receiving inputs from the Medium Speed CAN.

I have nothing to explain what actual volts/loads are expected, or given, by the electronic units.

Are you sure that you have no fault codes from the Climate Control Electronics that may point you towards why it is not calling that relay. Lots of the Electronics and Sensors are monitored.

Are all your Dashboard Controls set correctly to instruct the Climate Control to give you air flow, and have you tried different settings of temperature and air speed to check if anything works, in Auto or Manual.

Looking at the Repair Manual descriptions, which System do you have?.

I am concerned that applying inputs and/or swapping units may cause further problems, if the system has decided not to supply power to that relay, and therefore Flap Motors, it may not play the game in other ways and fail to provide, for example, Stepping Signals.

Sorry to be so cautious, but my first training was as an Avionics Tech, and they were particular about safety, and not wrecking their expensive kit.

Good Luck, you have discovered your problem, have a read of the Manual, and see if something triggers a clue to what is happening to your FL2. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Afternoon all,

Well another weekend of playing with the FL2

So to answer some Question I have the Automatic Dual zone system but without the optional cabin humidity sensor or the pollution sensor.

Well I now know what is causing the issue but not sure how to fix it.

Looking at the error codes they had a "87" extension, at the end, which upon inspection related to the LIN bus, there are different errors for mechanical failure ("09") or wrong position ("77").

So the components are ok, so it is the LIN signal from the motors which is causing the errors. I checked the LIN output from the Automatic Temperature Controller (ATC) pins C2H101D-7 (Right Side) and C2H101D-12 (Left Side). These where sending the correct output voltage, about 9volts but nothing at the motors. At the motors the earth continuity was good but nothing on Pin C23AE-1, the voltage to the motors. So the motors couldn't "see" the LIN signal as they were effectively switched off.

So it came down to Relay 5, I fooled it into working and suddenly the correct voltage was on the motors they all moved ok and I could clear the errors with my IID tool.

Once it released the relay the voltage went off and all the motors failed and the errors came back.

So the problem is the relay energiser signal from the Central Electronic Module (CEM) inside the Central Junction Box (CJB) on pin C1BB01A-38 isn't working. Why?

This relay also controls the front cigar lighter/power socket which obviously isn't working either.

So the only thing I have left to try is the Sunlight sensor (T166), this feeds into the CEM on pin C1BP02C-2, perhaps this is sending a signal which is stopping the CEM energising Relay 5? It was only £10 so I have ordered one of those, incidentally it has Volvo printed on it!

I have also ordered a new cigar lighter, in case that was faulty and my final straw to clutch at is fitting a second earth cable. Again only £10 for a new cable so thought it was worth it any way.

I assume if I get a new CJB I will need to get it coded to the car at a dealership?

So in conclusion all the Blend motors are ok, the loom is ok it is just the lack of an energising signal for relay 5 which is causing the problem.

On the plus side I have learnt alot about the climate system

Time for a sit down in the garden

The power needed for signal seems to come from the 'Comfort Relay' in the Central Electronics Module via the CJB pin 48.

I cannot find anything about this relay except the following error codes -

B1101-12 Comfort relay - circuit short to power
Comfort relay control circuit - short to power
Refer to electrical circuit diagrams and check comfort
relay control circuit for short to power

B1101-14Comfort relay - circuit short to ground or open
Comfort relay control circuit - short to ground, open circuit
Refer to electrical circuit diagrams and check comfort
relay control circuit for short to ground, open circuit

And the following Fault Diagnosis?
Symptom
No Driver seat movement from driver seat switch-pack (including no memory recall) and no passenger seat movement from passenger seat switch pack
Possible Cause
Comfort relay has de-activated which disables Driver seat and Passenger seat functions
Action
Insert Key and press ignition ON.
Check seat function from driver switch pack and passenger switch pack

Have you got Powered Seats, and do they work?

Having spotted the bit about the relay also provided power to the front cigar lighter, I Googled and found an almost identical thead on Landyzone, which Nodge had answered.
I then noticed that you had found it just before me and discovered that the Original Poster never finished it off by telling us how it was cured.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/fre...er.381741/ FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Hi,

Yes I did post to ask if/how they resolved it.

I saw the information about the seats and mine are powered and they work ok, though that was just the drivers seat, I didn't try the passenger one but assume it will work if the drivers one will. I'll check that tomorrow.

I don't get that error about the comfort relay on my scan, I wondered if that relay was some form of solid state relay and that is why it is in the CJB?

Can you take the CJB out ok with no issues if you disconnect the power first? Might be worth seeing if it contains a relay which you can replace?

Many thanks for all your help

I think that we have to wait to see if Nodge had the answer. He is your best bet, perhaps you could try to PM him, but he normally answers queries on the forum.

We are left with the Electronics Module 'saying No'.
You need the right equipment to interrogate it and exercise the Climate Control.
The best guess is that either the Electronics Module is being fed 'Duff Information' from a sensor and/or control, or the Module itself is 'Duff'.
That is why I asked you to double check that all controls were set correctly, and to try out different settings.
Amongst other things it will be checking internal and external temperatures. Please check Wing Mirror Temp Sensor, I don't know why but that idea keeps appearing in my head as it's out on a limb.

Good Luck FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Sorry, I've not been keeping up with threads, as I've got my own issues with my Freelander engine.

From memory, when the the repair manual describes a relay in the CJB, it is an actual relay. However CJB relays are hard soldered onto the board. It is possible to replace board mounted relays, but they'll need de-soldering from the board, and an identical replacement soldered back in. This is best left to someone with skills in this area.

This is an interesting issue, but need more time to digest all the information from the previous posts, before I can even guess as to the cause. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Hello all,

Thanks for the feedback Nodge68.

Well its been a busy week looking at wiring diagrams, taking units to bits and making assumptions.

I have checked the external temp sensors and it is getting its 5v and the resistance of the sensors changes as it warms so I think that is working correctly. My new sun load sensor isn't here yet so waiting for that.

I found a used CJB on The Bay with the same Serial Numbers as mine so decided to but it (only £35) so I could look at that to understand the issue without causing mine any trouble.

Here it is:



Once you take the plastic off you get to see two Printed Circuit Boards (PCB) on top of each other:



These can be separated with care so you have two individual PCBs:



From the top PCB you can see the 9 board mounted relays as Nodge68 said and the bottom board is all electronics. I think the bottom PCB is the Central Electronics Module (CEM) and the top is the fuses & relays.

I then looked at the wiring diagrams again and found 11 relays which had PCB next to their name suggesting they are on the top board. Looking even closer I saw that Relays R257 & R258 are the fuel cap lock and unlock and they are duel relays. Relays R270 & R271 are also duel relays and so that means there are 9 PCB relays which are the nine on the top board.



So the next question is where is the Comfort Relay which send the energising signal to Relay 5? This signal is on pin C1BP02A-48 and I tracked that down to the bottom board, I coloured it in black on this photo:



As you see this pin goes directly into the CEM module and so there is no moving relay it is just a signal from the CEM PCB. Pins C1BP02A-43, 45, 46 & 47 are all energising signal pins for relays 11, 7 , 10 & 9 which are in the engine bay battery junction box. So all these signals come from the CEM without a physical relay.

So what have I learnt?

There is no point in trying to look inside my central fuse box as there isn't a relay I can change. I need to check the pin 48 on C1BP02A to see if it goes to ground (which causes relay 5 to operate) if I'm not sure I can compare it to pins 43, 45, 46 & 47 on the same connector.

If that is ok then there must be damage to that cable as it goes to the engine box and perhaps I can put in a new cable?

Pin 46 turns on the Horn relay so I could wire that to relay 5 and I just need to press the horn to turn the AC on more likely pin 43 which is the wipers, so I could put the wipers on to set the blend motors.

So quite an interesting week learning about the electronics, I hope this helps anyone looking into the electronics.