Forum-Gallery-Shop-Sponsors

« Advertise on Freel2.com

Home > General > High peak autos
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 2 of 3 <123>
Print this entire topic · 
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2071

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Redfox wrote:
Much agreed. However, an i6 is now 900 gpb in road tac every year in my country. And te turbo diesel Freelander are much worse.
Next on the governments list, are ev's For now, they are litterally free of any road tax, but in a few years, they will punish the owners well again, as the ev's are so heavy.
A new 90 Defender with the right equipment is very wanted here, but wayyy too expensive.
Btw. in my humble view, not all new cars are better per definition, than older cars.

For example, I'll drive my Lotus Esprit any day, over something new. I'll keep them for a loooong time, hopefully.

On another note, can you imagine a forum like this for ev's? Tesla's where no one can work on their onw car, so the only thing they can do, is maybe change wheels and add a stick on plastic thingy somewhere? And the most interesting thing they can debate is whether they can make the 200" screen inside the car, talk like Arnold or Pamela? No, thought so.
Ha ha ha, just fell down from my office chair from laughing at ev's. I'll rather use a walking stick and shout at the local politician, who decided to ban cars and motorcycles. Btw. I use my bicycle every day for most things transportation wise.

Kind regards,
Redfox.


It always make me facepalm when folks on Land Rover forums quote EVs as being heavy. LRs are some of the heaviest vehicles on the road right now.

EVs aren't nearly as heavy as the media makes out. Yes they do weigh more than an equivalent ICE, but only by a few %, and they're getting lighter all the time. In reality all vehicles have put on huge amounts of weight over the years, mostly because legislation states they need to comply with ever increasingly tough crash worthiness standards.

Just for reference, a BMW 330I weighs about 1800kg with ½ a tank of fuel, a similar sized Tesla model 3 with similar performance weighs 1850kg, so not exactly a huge difference.


And there are forums for EV drivers. I'm on a few myself. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #441532 12th May 2024 2:09 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Redfox



Member Since: 07 Jan 2024
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 152

Denmark 2007 Freelander 2 i6 SE Auto Izmir Blue

.
..
...

Hence my reply Wink

Kind regards,
Redfox.

Post #441555 13th May 2024 6:30 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3107

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

I have noticed that quite a few of the EVs I have looked at felt 'empty' and less sturdy than my FL2.

I suspect that the Design Engineers have used the strength of the Battery Pack and cut back on the thickness of the body steel, to keep the weight down.

I know that modern Computer Assisted Design means that the overall structure will be as strong, but I worry that as time goes on, wear and tear/repairs will mean that the structure weakens quicker.

Forgive me but I tend to belong to the 'Isambard Kingdom Brunel' school of engineers, that means to build in a substantial amount of reserve strength.

I just hope that we are not cutting to many corners to get the mileage range in EVs that the existing battery technology cannot yet deliver. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #441564 13th May 2024 8:28 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2071

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

A 5 ☆ Euro N CAP of today exceeds that of the test that was carried out when the Freelander 2 was awarded its 5 ☆ rating.
However more points are now awarded to vehicles with active crash mitigation systems than when the Freelander was tested.
The Freelander does feel sturdy compared to many modern vehicles, but does that mean it's any safer?
Body steels can and are chosen for a particular location, not just gauge, but steel type for a particular location. The Freelander 2 uses 3 different grades of steel in the body, those grades being chosen for a particular location and design strength.
I know Tesla's are particularly strong vehicles, dispite them being light weight (for an EV), but they do use high strength aluminium for large parts of the body structure, which is responsible for both the light weight and enormous strength of the body.
Other manufacturer's use cleverly engineered steel types and gauges in key locations, which again maximise strength for less weight.

Pretty much all vehicle crash test results are available on line.
I'm happy that our chosen EV is as safe and likely safer than the Freelander 2 it'll be replacing. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #441580 13th May 2024 7:31 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Just a driver



Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 409

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

I wonder how many people who buy used cars think about how safe a car is in a crash or it’s strength. Most people I know think of initial cost, mpg , road tax price and can I get it fixed cheaply locally if it breaks.

Post #441582 13th May 2024 7:48 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
TooBlue



Member Since: 30 Oct 2019
Location: Midlands
Posts: 265

United Kingdom 

I like the way EV owners always appear out of nowhere to defend their offspring of a Sinclair C5, whenever someone says anything negative about them. Laughing

Happens on all motoring forums.

Post #441587 13th May 2024 8:52 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3107

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

Nodge68 wrote:

I know Tesla's are particularly strong vehicles, despite them being light weight (for an EV), but they do use high strength aluminium for large parts of the body structure, which is responsible for both the light weight and enormous strength of the body.


Nodge, I have read, in several places lately, about this method of attaching Large Scale Aluminium Castings front and back of the Battery Pack, and it being the method of the future. It simplifies the number of parts and fastenings/welds by a huge amount, thus saving lots of money and production time.
It means that a deformable crash structure has to be added at the ends, but any larger damage would need a whole casting replacement.

I read that Musk got the idea from toy Die-Cast Model Cars.

Toyota, amongst others, is investing in the technology.
https://www.ft.com/content/08048b42-ce72-4b64-9e0e-d15fbc98a9da

PS A Bristol Vauxhall Car Dealer suffered a suspected EV Car Fire,
If you look at the flames on the right of the video, they definitely have the characteristic 'burning gas' look that you get with EV Fires.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2544ndvkepo FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #441592 13th May 2024 10:03 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3107

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

TooBlue wrote:
I like the way EV owners always appear out of nowhere to defend their offspring of a Sinclair C5, whenever someone says anything negative about them. Laughing

Happens on all motoring forums.


Have you tried driving one?
I was loaned a Jag I-Pace for a day and was very impressed by the way it went - quiet, smooth, and very fast. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #441593 13th May 2024 10:07 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2071

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

TooBlue wrote:
I like the way EV owners always appear out of nowhere to defend their offspring of a Sinclair C5, whenever someone says anything negative about them. Laughing

Happens on all motoring forums.


We own 4 fossil fuel vehicles in our family, 1 of which is being replaced by an EV. I've done a huge amount or research into the benefits and pitfalls of the power train.
There is a massive reduction in cost per mile if charged at home on a cheap rate. A good EV is also much more pleasant to drive, especially long distances as they are devoid of noise and vibration. Performance wise, even a low cost model is faster than the ICE equivalent, and high performance models are just crazy fast.

I'll be swapping my aging Freelander 2 for a shiny new EV of similar dimensions, as it'll work for us, and be 10th of the fuel costs per mile. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #441595 14th May 2024 6:30 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2071

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

IanMetro wrote:
Nodge68 wrote:

I know Tesla's are particularly strong vehicles, despite them being light weight (for an EV), but they do use high strength aluminium for large parts of the body structure, which is responsible for both the light weight and enormous strength of the body.


Nodge, I have read, in several places lately, about this method of attaching Large Scale Aluminium Castings front and back of the Battery Pack, and it being the method of the future. It simplifies the number of parts and fastenings/welds by a huge amount, thus saving lots of money and production time.
It means that a deformable crash structure has to be added at the ends, but any larger damage would need a whole casting replacement.

I read that Musk got the idea from toy Die-Cast Model Cars.

Toyota, amongst others, is investing in the technology.
https://www.ft.com/content/08048b42-ce72-4b64-9e0e-d15fbc98a9da

PS A Bristol Vauxhall Car Dealer suffered a suspected EV Car Fire,
If you look at the flames on the right of the video, they definitely have the characteristic 'burning gas' look that you get with EV Fires.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2544ndvkepo


Vehicle construction design is advancing all the time as new materials are being used, and more innovative ways are being developed to use these newer materials.
Tesla's aluminium casting and sheet construction isn't new, Audi used similar techniques in the early 2000s for its large saloon models.
However Tesla have the money to be able to pay top designers and engineers to achieve the goals required by Musk. I doubt he's responsible for any designs himself, he's just got the money to get the job done.

If there were no EVs in that dealer, it wouldn't get in the news, like the other 500 or so dealer vehicle fires last year.

As it only took 2 hours for the fire service to put the fire out, I'd suggest that an EV battery fire wasn't involved. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #441596 14th May 2024 6:42 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Just a driver



Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 409

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

I don’t think people take to much notice of a fire like that. It’s just the same if a supermarket has a scare , the shop reduces prices and people rush into buying stuff again and quickly forget about what ever the problem was. Ev are the same if the government wants us all driving them it has to get out it’s cheque book and pay or a big stick and beat us into submission. Simple.

Post #441597 14th May 2024 6:57 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3107

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

IT WILL BE THE BIG STICK. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #441604 14th May 2024 8:32 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2071

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Just a driver wrote:
I don’t think people take to much notice of a fire like that. It’s just the same if a supermarket has a scare , the shop reduces prices and people rush into buying stuff again and quickly forget about what ever the problem was. Ev are the same if the government wants us all driving them it has to get out it’s cheque book and pay or a big stick and beat us into submission. Simple.


The government doesn't want us all driving them though, as they'll loose billions in fuel duty and RFL, which will have to come from somewhere else. The current government did away with the new zero emission vehicle purchase benefit, which proved it wanted to slow down the rate that EVs were being bought. However the UK has signed up to various emissions reduction targets, so has to be seen to be supporting low emissions targets, even if it's just smoke and mirrors. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #441620 14th May 2024 9:14 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
TooBlue



Member Since: 30 Oct 2019
Location: Midlands
Posts: 265

United Kingdom 

Nodge68 wrote:
Performance wise, even a low cost model is faster than the ICE equivalent, and high performance models are just crazy fast. .


Very few people drive EV's quickly though.

I am nearly always stuck behind an EV being driven slowly.
Presumably as the range suffers at a decent speed.

Post #441625 14th May 2024 11:34 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ReggiePerrin



Member Since: 13 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1261

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Firenze Red

Nodge68 wrote:
The government doesn't want us all driving them though, as they'll loose billions in fuel duty and RFL, which will have to come from somewhere else.

    ◼︎ Pay per mile
    ◼︎ VAT on domestic electricity used to charge EVs increased from 5% to 20%)
    ◼︎ Perhaps even a 'propulsion duty' on electricity used to charge EVs to match that of existing road fuels

will comfortably replace lost fossil fuel and RFL revenues.

Sad

Post #441626 14th May 2024 11:41 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 2 of 3 <123>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
Freel2.com RSS Feed - All Forums


Switch to Mobile site