Redfox wrote:

Much agreed. However, an i6 is now 900 gpb in road tac every year in my country. And te turbo diesel Freelander are much worse.
Next on the governments list, are ev's For now, they are litterally free of any road tax, but in a few years, they will punish the owners well again, as the ev's are so heavy.
A new 90 Defender with the right equipment is very wanted here, but wayyy too expensive.
Btw. in my humble view, not all new cars are better per definition, than older cars.

For example, I'll drive my Lotus Esprit any day, over something new. I'll keep them for a loooong time, hopefully.

On another note, can you imagine a forum like this for ev's? Tesla's where no one can work on their onw car, so the only thing they can do, is maybe change wheels and add a stick on plastic thingy somewhere? And the most interesting thing they can debate is whether they can make the 200" screen inside the car, talk like Arnold or Pamela? No, thought so.
Ha ha ha, just fell down from my office chair from laughing at ev's. I'll rather use a walking stick and shout at the local politician, who decided to ban cars and motorcycles. Btw. I use my bicycle every day for most things transportation wise.

Kind regards,
Redfox.

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Hence my reply

Kind regards,
Redfox.

I have noticed that quite a few of the EVs I have looked at felt 'empty' and less sturdy than my FL2.

I suspect that the Design Engineers have used the strength of the Battery Pack and cut back on the thickness of the body steel, to keep the weight down.

I know that modern Computer Assisted Design means that the overall structure will be as strong, but I worry that as time goes on, wear and tear/repairs will mean that the structure weakens quicker.

Forgive me but I tend to belong to the 'Isambard Kingdom Brunel' school of engineers, that means to build in a substantial amount of reserve strength.

I just hope that we are not cutting to many corners to get the mileage range in EVs that the existing battery technology cannot yet deliver. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

A 5 ☆ Euro N CAP of today exceeds that of the test that was carried out when the Freelander 2 was awarded its 5 ☆ rating.
However more points are now awarded to vehicles with active crash mitigation systems than when the Freelander was tested.
The Freelander does feel sturdy compared to many modern vehicles, but does that mean it's any safer?
Body steels can and are chosen for a particular location, not just gauge, but steel type for a particular location. The Freelander 2 uses 3 different grades of steel in the body, those grades being chosen for a particular location and design strength.
I know Tesla's are particularly strong vehicles, dispite them being light weight (for an EV), but they do use high strength aluminium for large parts of the body structure, which is responsible for both the light weight and enormous strength of the body.
Other manufacturer's use cleverly engineered steel types and gauges in key locations, which again maximise strength for less weight.

Pretty much all vehicle crash test results are available on line.
I'm happy that our chosen EV is as safe and likely safer than the Freelander 2 it'll be replacing. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

I wonder how many people who buy used cars think about how safe a car is in a crash or it’s strength. Most people I know think of initial cost, mpg , road tax price and can I get it fixed cheaply locally if it breaks.

I like the way EV owners always appear out of nowhere to defend their offspring of a Sinclair C5, whenever someone says anything negative about them.

Happens on all motoring forums.

Nodge68 wrote:

I know Tesla's are particularly strong vehicles, despite them being light weight (for an EV), but they do use high strength aluminium for large parts of the body structure, which is responsible for both the light weight and enormous strength of the body.

TooBlue wrote:

I like the way EV owners always appear out of nowhere to defend their offspring of a Sinclair C5, whenever someone says anything negative about them.

Happens on all motoring forums.

TooBlue wrote:

I like the way EV owners always appear out of nowhere to defend their offspring of a Sinclair C5, whenever someone says anything negative about them.

Happens on all motoring forums.

IanMetro wrote:

Nodge68 wrote:

I know Tesla's are particularly strong vehicles, despite them being light weight (for an EV), but they do use high strength aluminium for large parts of the body structure, which is responsible for both the light weight and enormous strength of the body.

Nodge, I have read, in several places lately, about this method of attaching Large Scale Aluminium Castings front and back of the Battery Pack, and it being the method of the future. It simplifies the number of parts and fastenings/welds by a huge amount, thus saving lots of money and production time.
It means that a deformable crash structure has to be added at the ends, but any larger damage would need a whole casting replacement.

I read that Musk got the idea from toy Die-Cast Model Cars.

Toyota, amongst others, is investing in the technology.
https://www.ft.com/content/08048b42-ce72-4b64-9e0e-d15fbc98a9da

PS A Bristol Vauxhall Car Dealer suffered a suspected EV Car Fire,
If you look at the flames on the right of the video, they definitely have the characteristic 'burning gas' look that you get with EV Fires.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2544ndvkepo

I don’t think people take to much notice of a fire like that. It’s just the same if a supermarket has a scare , the shop reduces prices and people rush into buying stuff again and quickly forget about what ever the problem was. Ev are the same if the government wants us all driving them it has to get out it’s cheque book and pay or a big stick and beat us into submission. Simple.

IT WILL BE THE BIG STICK. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Just a driver wrote:

I don’t think people take to much notice of a fire like that. It’s just the same if a supermarket has a scare , the shop reduces prices and people rush into buying stuff again and quickly forget about what ever the problem was. Ev are the same if the government wants us all driving them it has to get out it’s cheque book and pay or a big stick and beat us into submission. Simple.

Nodge68 wrote:

Performance wise, even a low cost model is faster than the ICE equivalent, and high performance models are just crazy fast. .

Nodge68 wrote:

The government doesn't want us all driving them though, as they'll loose billions in fuel duty and RFL, which will have to come from somewhere else.

◼︎ Pay per mile
◼︎ VAT on domestic electricity used to charge EVs increased from 5% to 20%)
◼︎ Perhaps even a 'propulsion duty' on electricity used to charge EVs to match that of existing road fuels

will comfortably replace lost fossil fuel and RFL revenues.