Bobupndown: Me too. He's a sort of Oz Clarkson but unlike our JC he actually has a working knowledge of engineering, thermodynamics and how cars work etc and many of the things he says about Australian politics and the car industry there ring true for many Ozzies I think. He's been at for quite a while judging by the earlier pics of himself on Youtube.

Not everyone likes him puerile humour though. Jules

Bobupndown wrote:

My wife would love to change her Tiguan for an Evoque or a Disco Sport but I really cant see us doing so given the issues LR have with their Ingenium engines.

Or you can buy a petrol DS. I presume that they don't have the DPF problem as they don't have a DPF. I have noticed quite a few appearing as "demonstrators" on the approved LR lists with very low mileages. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

What sort of MPG are petrol DSs getting in the real world ?

Since We've retired the FL2 annual mileage has dropped considerably (down to about 6K) and we tend to use it for mainly for trips away and towing so the lower MPG of petrol would be less of an issue for us now. Jules

Interesting site - doesn't have any details of DS petrol but does for the Evoque.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/real-mpg/ MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Our trip back & forth across Australia last year.

12,800 km
56 kph
11.34 L/100 (24.9 mpg)
$2,520.13 petrol
500 kg payload
A lot on the roof
3000 km of dirt roads & tracks

Maybe I could have saved about $700 using diesel, but the petrol engine is really nice! If one is really that worried over the price of fuel you are driving the wrong car! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Tigger wrote:

Bobupndown wrote:

My wife would love to change her Tiguan for an Evoque or a Disco Sport but I really cant see us doing so given the issues LR have with their Ingenium engines.

Just think of all the development time and money that LR wasted trying to hit near impossible diesel emissions regulations, when all they had to do was follow VW’s lead and fib their way through the entire exercise. LR falling short on service intervals is of relatively little consequence in comparison to VW’s intentional deception !

On the other hand, I’m happier to decrease my oil change intervals, than to knowingly run a car that carries on cheating

I don’t believe that oil dilution is unique to JLR, it’s just that we are reaching the limits of what can viably be achieved, with a Diesel engine, to make it meet ever stricter emissions regs. Something has to give!

I thought the Ingenium oil dilution issue is only a problem in the transversely mounted vehicles, Evoque and DS. In longitudinal mounted Ingeniums the DPF can be positioned nearer the exhaust manifold and oil dilution does not occur.
Or does it occur with all Ingenium installations. Jules

I believe that the issue is all about the distance between the exhaust manifold and the DPF and making sure that the exhaust gasses are hot enough. Extra diesel is injected on the exhaust stroke to burn off in the DPF and clean it up. However the real issue is that reaching euro 6 standards with diesel if very difficult and euro 7 probably impossible. Add to that the growing number of places where diesels are planned to be banned and the resultant effect on resale values and obvious thing is to move on to either electric or petrol. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Quite correct dorset. However I would temper this with the following.

Undoubtedly, the DPF element of the SCRF system was inferior on 15-17.5MY. This was explained in a Johnson-Matthey leaked document circa 2017, and JLR, in cahoots with the aforementioned did a silent deal and simply replaced under warranty on a "fix on fail" basis any DPF that was the root cause behind presenting an early oil change scenario. 18MY>, and the SD240 never suffered this problem. The catastrophic cock-up by JLR was the dealer network globally not getting behind the SCN that was issued, arguing the toss with the customer and citing "driving style", and ultimately, losing face once the original JLRP00100 was leaked worldwide. They acknowledged that there was a problem, both architecturally and with an inferior Johnson-Matthey coated DPF, and tried to mitigate this by blaming the customer first. Only those that fought and fought got the publicity that the entire campaign needed to get them to pull their fingers out. Fast-forward to 2018 and this problem really is not as common as it initially was with the 16/17MY vehicles.

From my own personal perspective, I have been running a 17MY DS since July 2017. I bought it (eyes wide open) with 9k on the clock, and it now sits at 35k. I have had it serviced once at 18 months/19000 miles, and at 35k and now over 3 years old, I still have a counter showing 6k to next service.

Now, I may just be one of the lucky ones. Or it may well be that my >30 daily commute on NSL/Motorways keeps my engine as sweet as a nut...who knows? But I have no gripes with my vehicle performance and maintenance-wise...it's doing exactly what the brochure said that it would do. But I know that out of the thousands and thousands of these vehicles that have been sold to date, an awful lot of owners/drivers are not experiencing the problem that a vocal minority are.

Whilst I personally think that JLR cocked up big time in addressing the issue and taking ownership. I can't help but think that a lot of the problems are caused by owners who a) should never have purchased a Euro 6 diesel of any marque as their driving style is incompatible, and b) those that did have the old Euro 5 mentality of "rag it once a week on a dual carriageway/Motorway". That might well generate enough conventional heat to burn soot the old Euro 5 way, but the Euro 6 SCRF system works in a completely different way to this.

Euro 6 diesels don't burn soot like that. In the case of the DS, take it above 70mph (and let's face it, we all do) on a Motorway, and the active regeneration cycle is interrupted by software coding. Drive 20 or so miles at 69mph (like I do) and you will get not only an average of 50+mpg, but your engine will generate enough heat to the DOCto burn anything, and combined with inherent software and a 600 degree exhaust trip will burn it all away (including the diesel injected into the engine) leaving only a small amount of ash.

Trust me, I've been looking for an excuse for over 2.5 years to get my money back by way of rejection, and I can't. It does exactly what the brochure promised based against my journey pattern daily.

Yes, the early ones were flawed, but from >18MY they seem to have got it right. Unfortunately, bad legacy will always stay prominent in some people's minds, and on this, JLR have only themselves to blame.

Thats an interesting update on the scenario.
Glad to hear yours is doing all it should, and that is a valid point that there must be thousands of satisfied owners who dont have issues and dont shout about it.
50mpg at 69 mph - what's your average mpg? Manual or auto? Landrover - turning owners into mechanics since 1948

2014 Orkney grey Freelander SD4 GS.
2004 Zambezi silver Discovery 2 Td5 (Gone)
1963 Surf blue Morris Mini Minor Super de Luxe (my little toy)

It's an Auto, and is averaging mid to high 40's. Go over 70 and it plummets like a stone mind you!

Last weekend I drove to Stansted Airport and back at a steady 65-69mph and returned 52.6 over 227 miles. Not bad for a 2 Tonne lump. See attached part-journey log:

Thanks for the insight on euro 6. My neighbour bought a diesel DS in autumn 18 and in February 2019 had the balance shaft problem which the garage refused to believe until LR Assist got involved. That did it for me on diesels.
Incidentally if you do a search on "oil dilution problem" you will find that several manufacturers have the same issue. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Sperly wrote:

Go over 70 and it plummets like a stone mind you!