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Home > Technical > 2SO - 2 Stroke oil and Diesel
Who is using 2 Stroke Oil
Yes - and my FL is quieter
36%
 36%  [54]
Yes - But I cannot tell if my FL is quieter
10%
 10%  [15]
Yes - No, It is not quieter
2%
 2%  [3]
No - I am not using 2 Stroke oil
51%
 51%  [75]
Total Votes: 147

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fredastaire



Member Since: 03 Dec 2012
Location: Holbrook
Posts: 721

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Santorini Black

This whole saga was started by a lady lawyer called Yamaha fan from Munich, she joined the forum in June 2007 and last posted in May 2011 which is now 4 years ago.
.
On the home page at the bottom it records which members are on as 'live'
.
Does anybody out there know who she is and has anybody seen her ID pop up on the home page recently as 'live' ? She did after all own a Freelie at the time.
.
I'd appreciate her update on TSO.
.
Kind regards from Fred 2010GS Auto ex Celeb, Santorini Black, 2011 facelift , spoiler, spats, mudflaps, LED footwell lamps, Witter detach,
Other cars:-
1958 & 1959 Austin J40 Pedal Cars under restoration (I make many J40 parts)
If you have an Austin J40 or Pathfinder Pedal Car looking for a new home pls PM me.
2009 Meriva

Post #260784 17th Apr 2015 2:45 pm
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npinks



Member Since: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Ls25
Posts: 20090

United Kingdom 

i really don't think other than saying it "works in tests, she has seen", there is nothing more she can say on the matter, unless the company she was working for have made the finding public

she always said that she couldn't make the findings public, obviously client confidentiality, but said that a brand of cars had released it in their cars manual that it was okay to add, but funiliy enough the on line manuals for those brands mention nothing about adding it at that time either

I'm sure she would dismiss the test findings too Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Post #260787 17th Apr 2015 2:56 pm
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Past master



Member Since: 30 Jun 2010
Location: Isle of Ely
Posts: 2710

United Kingdom 

I got the impression that the manual mentioned was for special purposes - ie "third world" use. The implication was that you would add TSO in areas where the diesel is dodgy.
So like South Africa then...? Ex AA Series III LWB Safari - Gone
300TDi Disco (bought new - terrible car) sent back after 18 months
Freelander 1 Estate - leased, given back at end of lease
200TDi Disco (bought from a mate with 100,000 on the clock) - Gone
Disco 2 TD5 - sold and exported to France
FR2 TD4 GS - Gone
FR2 SD4 HSE - Now changed for a DS
New model ex-demo Evoque S 180 in white
Unable to order a new DS, so gave up. Now have a Volvo S90 Recharge.

Post #260788 17th Apr 2015 3:04 pm
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dr. tom



Member Since: 28 Aug 2012
Location: Duesseldorf/NRW
Posts: 15

Germany 2012 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Yes, dear Npinks. You want proof that 2SO works. What proof have you submitted, that 2SO does not work, other than polemic bullshit and the reference to the test of one oil producer.
Will practical experience not count as proof? You want accademic proof, than you are mistaken. Even me, as a full accademic,
will put practical experience over imperical tests.
Not without reason will the pharmaceutical industry release new medicines after imperial studies and testing without practical testing to substanciate the laboratory tests. Why do they do this? Because the practical experience ist by far more reliable than the laboratory tests. Maybe one day you will understand these complex relations.

Post #260789 17th Apr 2015 3:09 pm
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ReggiePerrin



Member Since: 13 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1262

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Firenze Red

Isn't it really the case that if 2SO really delivered any quantifiable benefit, then diesel sellers would be on it like a tramp on chips and selling us all 2SO enhanced diesel for a few pence more per litre than the price of regular diesel?

My non-scientific / no practical experience view is that if it made engines perform better, car manufacturers would recommend it. Until that happens I couldn't be doing with the added faff of 2SO dosing.

I use Vpower in my FL2 but in my 1.9 TDI hatch I use Tescburysons cheapest - not sure the extra cost of Vpower delivers any measurable benefit over supermarket diesel either...

Post #260794 17th Apr 2015 4:13 pm
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taztastic



Member Since: 03 Feb 2011
Location: North West
Posts: 8652

England 

fredastaire wrote:
This whole saga was started by a lady lawyer called Yamaha fan from Munich, she joined the forum in June 2007 and last posted in May 2011 which is now 4 years ago.
.
On the home page at the bottom it records which members are on as 'live'
.
Does anybody out there know who she is and has anybody seen her ID pop up on the home page recently as 'live' ? She did after all own a Freelie at the time.
.
I'd appreciate her update on TSO.
.
Kind regards from Fred


As a mod, we can see email addresses of registered members, helps in validating genuine members and it is information that is kept secret unless the member has ticked the box.
I emailed Yamaha Fan politely requesting a response, the email bounced back as the account is no longer in use ...

Post #260801 17th Apr 2015 4:56 pm
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Paul



Member Since: 10 Feb 2007
Location: Ghent
Posts: 417

Belgium 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Stornoway Grey

npinks wrote:
I don't need to provide proof of whether it does or doesn't work, the fact that the motor manufacturers don't tell you to add 2SO into you diesel is enough for me its obviously not required, but when some people rave on about it been so wonderful do many millions of miles, it obviously isn't doing any harm adding it.



as I already said on Nov.17th 2007:

If they did, it would mean that they admit their engines - or at least their sophisticated diesel injection pumps - are not adapted to the modern diesel fuel.

That wouldn't be in their own interest, would it ?

And if the fuel manufacturers would admit the benefits, they would admit their expensive diesel isn't good enough.

So it was and is clear that from neither carmanufacturers nor fuel producers, you'll never get any recommendation for the use of 2SO. (which of course doesn't mean that therefore it is beneficial).


Last edited by Paul on 17th Apr 2015 7:28 pm. Edited 2 times in total

Post #260820 17th Apr 2015 7:07 pm
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Ben Twillie



Member Since: 19 Feb 2012
Location: Home
Posts: 120

United Kingdom 2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Ipanema Sand

I have been using TSO in 2 cars for 4 years, the benefits have been obvious to me on both cars, one with DPF (reduced dose and JASO FC) and one with no DPF ( JASO FB ratio 1:200.) I really struggle with the nastiness that gets into this thread, started mainly by the anti side and which normally gets personal. We have one Mod who tries hard to keep a balance and one with a chip on his shoulder that does little to promote his case against the use of TSO. Most people post here to pass on tips and help members, nobody, as far as I can tell, sets out to publish harmful advice deliberately. FFS use it if you believe in it and don't use it if you don't.

Post #260966 19th Apr 2015 8:37 am
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ReggiePerrin



Member Since: 13 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1262

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Firenze Red

Paul wrote:
[Snipped for brevity]
... And if the fuel manufacturers would admit the benefits, they would admit their expensive diesel isn't good enough.


They sort of admit it already in selling a standard grade and a more expensive premium grade. The standard fuel is good enough for the majority of consumers but hey look here, our premium grade with it's added benefits (clever marketing perhaps) is much better for your engine, performance and polar bears.

If the benefits of added 2SO are real and consistently measurable then the likes of Shell, Texaco, BP etc would be adding it for us and promoting it as 'our best new improved diesel ever' and charging us accordingly.

It would become the new standard fuel (for a penny or two per litre extra) which still leaves space for the premium fuel above it.

Post #260974 19th Apr 2015 9:49 am
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oldgeezer



Member Since: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1302

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

well interesting topic.
I have been using TSO for many many years ( first found ou about it is 1987 ) and most of my Diesels have run permanently on a low dose. My Peugeot 405Turbo D covering 285000 miles without smoke or issues.

Interestingly the test mentions Zinc, well motor oils have zinc in as well as its used as a lubricant. mostly less than 1%
My current van has covered more than 80K injust over a year with dose on every fill.

Now according to the scientific test my injectors should be blocked by now as the working surface area of most diesel injectors is 20 microns ! ( more important is the torque setting of the securing bolt for an injector as the tension changes the structure of the injector and this would cause more problems than a touch of zinc )

I tried a tank full without and I definatley loose some torque and one of the very long inclines I do every day with the same payload I have to drop down an additional gear when no TSO added and the engine is noisier.

Having been involved in lab testing and with engine oils one lab test on one engine for just a few hours has no value whatsoever.
The research center I was involved with would use a row of 12 hand built engines all rebuilt to exact spec and run on water dynomometer and run until the engines had destructed which often involved months running flat out. Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

Post #261794 26th Apr 2015 11:02 am
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donksey



Member Since: 16 Nov 2014
Location: Surrey
Posts: 87

United Kingdom 

I started using 2 stroke a couple of months back and for some rerason it took a few tanks full, but my mpg went gradually went from 25mpg urban to 30 mpg. Just to confirm this I did not add any in my fill up before this one, my MPG dropped back to 25MPG. Filed up again adding 2 stroke and it has crept back up to 30mpg again.
It is also quieter on starting cold, more responsive and nicer to drive.

Post #265478 1st Jun 2015 9:49 pm
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MarkyTM



Member Since: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Somerset
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 

OK so coming up on 5 months of 2SO in every tankful of my 07 3.0 Audi A6 quattro TDI, as I fill 80lt each time I've been adding 750ml per tank at the station before I start to pump fuel.

Just had MOT done last Thursday (28th May 15) and despite doing 4k less miles than the previous year my emissions were down. Nothing else has changed as have been using millers since I had the car in 2012 and have always used supermarket fuel (Tesco as nearest for 24 months).

Smoke Reading
Peak 1 = 1.14 m-1 (1.16)

Zero Drift = 0.06 m-1 (0.08 ) Max 0.10

Average = 1.08 m-1 (1.20 )

Test result
Fast Pass = 1.08 m-1 (1.20) Max 1.50

So with my emissions down by 9% at fast pass I'll stick with the TSO since I am reasonably sure that a big lump like my engine would normally have worse emissions with shorter journeys. Hopefully next year I'll get below 1.0 Thumbs Up

Last years figures shown in brackets ( )

Post #265497 2nd Jun 2015 7:21 am
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rjc1944



Member Since: 18 Dec 2011
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall
Posts: 783

England 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

I hope my adding 2SO wasn't the cause of my faulty turbo.............. Ours - 2008 Stornoway Grey HSE Auto
Tricia's - 2006 Royal Blue Beetle Cabriolet Auto
Mine - 2014 Vespa GTS 300 Super Sport Matt Black
Ours - 2007 White Bailey Pageant Champagne

Post #265896 4th Jun 2015 2:52 pm
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npinks



Member Since: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Ls25
Posts: 20090

United Kingdom 

i doubt it my turbo went twice on the old car and i dont use it Thumbs Up Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Post #265898 4th Jun 2015 2:58 pm
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p5pete



Member Since: 24 Apr 2015
Location: St. Helens, Merseyside.
Posts: 10

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Lux Auto Firenze Red

dr. tom wrote:
Yes, dear Npinks. You want proof that 2SO works. What proof have you submitted, that 2SO does not work, other than polemic bullshit and the reference to the test of one oil producer.
Will practical experience not count as proof? You want accademic proof, than you are mistaken. Even me, as a full accademic,
will put practical experience over imperical tests.
Not without reason will the pharmaceutical industry release new medicines after imperial studies and testing without practical testing to substanciate the laboratory tests. Why do they do this? Because the practical experience ist by far more reliable than the laboratory tests. Maybe one day you will understand these complex relations.


Oh Boy, I am not sure if it works or not and may try it one day to find out for myself, but one thing that has been proven to my mind is what a nasty bit of work dr. tom is. He can not accept that Npinks can have a different view point so starts to be nasty.

Examples,
"Yes, dear Npinks." A sarcastic comment from someone who knows, not thinks, he is superior.
"polemic bullshit" How dare you disagree with me.
"Even me, as a full accademic," I am a superior being to you and will not be questioned.
"Maybe one day you will understand these complex relations." I do and you don't so I am superior.

Perhaps he also thinks it is OK to still put his towel on the deck chair. He has not posted since the post above and I for one hopes he will not do so again unless it is an apology to Npinks, who I have never met by the way.

Cheers, Pete

Post #266840 14th Jun 2015 6:39 pm
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