Just a driver wrote:

I must admit investing 10 grand and getting 2 grand a year for the rest of your life sounds good, but is that real or just Internet talk. Harry’s farm did a good review on his solar and he ain’t short of a Bob or 2. He keeps records etc and said what they claim it will generate is no where near what it actually does.

Sadly for me if I was to make a list of enjoyable things to spend my money on home insulation wouldn`t make the cut I think!

I must admit I am with you there and getting less time to spend it. Haha

Hm, my return on my coal fired power station is ... oh hang on, I don't have one. So the money only flows one way with my electricity.
Another way EVs and solar is inequitable. Does the Govt care? No sirree. They should subsidize me for keeping fossil fuel companies in business. And while they're doing that they need to take action and ensure we can always find more fossil fuels.
the planet I want cheap power for my automatic chip frier. MY11 SD4 SE Auto

Doesn't it take about 5 years for an EV to break even with regards to co2. So at least with solar power in your home you will continue to benefit once you break even but how many of you will keep an EV for over 5 years??

Most new EVs break even on CO2 emissions after about 50k miles, so slightly more, some slightly less. After this the only CO2 emissions are from the electricity that goes into them. If only wind or solar power is used for charging, an EV is basically emission free.
To kept things in perspective, an ICE vehicle will never break even, as it continues to emit CO2 the whole time the engine is running.

How long a particular owner has an EV is irrelevant, as it'll break even on CO2 regardless of who owns it. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

The only issue i was trying to make was that many owners of EVs will not keep the car for long tern so if they (the buyer) thinks they are contributing to emission free motoring by buying one brand new they will not until the car gets to 50k or 5 years so they then buy another and continue the cycle of never getting to this point in time whereby it becomes emission free!

so not totally irrelevant.

I see your point, and yes the first owner may believe they are saving the planet more than they actually are. However as an ICE vehicle emits CO2 from the moment it leaves the factory, but a BEV doesn't, the 1st owner is still reducing emissions, and definitely improving air quality in the area they drive it. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Although I have reservations about BEVs and the practicality from my personal point of view, I do look forward to a car without a PDF or EGR. Jules

Or oil changes, timing belts, fuel filters, air filters, glow plugs and so on. A BEV has minimal maintenance compared to an ICE vehicle, which is one reason they cost more up front compared to an ICE vehicle. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Surely the main reason that they cost more, is the cost of the battery.

I believe that we are in the infancy of the BEV technology, and my grand children will look back at our early attempts of changing from ICE to EV like we do at changing from steam to ICE.

From my experience of working with the change from analogue electromechanical to digital modern solutions, I would say nothings impossible in the future.
BUT I do believe that sometimes the marketing optimism (and the need to make a quick buck) far outstrips the actual engineering reality and performance.

I have yet to be able to make a case that will give me any savings over my existing FL2.
Although I must admit that the quite, effortless, performance of the I-Pace was quite intoxicating.

So if you like the feel of acceleration, buy an EV, but don't forget to get neck-braces for your passengers. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 82k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Right now we (FL2 owners, ignoring any other vehicles we may have) are not the target audience for BEV manufacturers. We are driving cars that are 10-15 years old, so typically the economics of buying any new car will weigh heavy in the equation. I say typically because I know many of us have the funds - but there is a reason we're driving around in older cars and not having the desire for the latest new shiny on the drive could well be part of it, or we have greater priorities elsewhere.

New car sales are overwhelmingly "churn" of 2-4 year old cars, selling repeatedly to the same customers on a regular cycle of change. The average/typical FL2 driver isn't interested in that market/renewal cycle.

Motoring forums are full of folk driving cars of a similar age bemoaning the lack of affordable BEVs. The reality is, many were bemoaning the lack of affordable ICE cars just a couple of years back. The objection isn't the technology, it's all down to not wanting or not being able to stump up north of £40k for any half sensible new car that will replace the broad capabilities of their existing one.

Take the FL2 as an example. If you want something new that has SUV/Estate practicality, 4wd and 1800-2000kg of tow capacity you're looking at the best part of £40k for something like a Skoda Octavia. Current driveway contents:
2021 V60 Cross Country B5
2009 FL2 dog bus and shooting wagon

On Order: 2023 Fisker Ocean Ultra - deposit paid.

IanMetro wrote:

Surely the main reason that they cost more, is the cost of the battery.

I believe that we are in the infancy of the BEV technology, and my grand children will look back at our early attempts of changing from ICE to EV like we do at changing from steam to ICE.

From my experience of working with the change from analogue electromechanical to digital modern solutions, I would say nothings impossible in the future.
BUT I do believe that sometimes the marketing optimism (and the need to make a quick buck) far outstrips the actual engineering reality and performance.

I have yet to be able to make a case that will give me any savings over my existing FL2.
Although I must admit that the quite, effortless, performance of the I-Pace was quite intoxicating.

So if you like the feel of acceleration, buy an EV, but don't forget to get neck-braces for your passengers.

NoDo$h wrote:

Right now we (FL2 owners, ignoring any other vehicles we may have) are not the target audience for BEV manufacturers. We are driving cars that are 10-15 years old, so typically the economics of buying any new car will weigh heavy in the equation. I say typically because I know many of us have the funds - but there is a reason we're driving around in older cars and not having the desire for the latest new shiny on the drive could well be part of it, or we have greater priorities elsewhere.

New car sales are overwhelmingly "churn" of 2-4 year old cars, selling repeatedly to the same customers on a regular cycle of change. The average/typical FL2 driver isn't interested in that market/renewal cycle.

Motoring forums are full of folk driving cars of a similar age bemoaning the lack of affordable BEVs. The reality is, many were bemoaning the lack of affordable ICE cars just a couple of years back. The objection isn't the technology, it's all down to not wanting or not being able to stump up north of £40k for any half sensible new car that will replace the broad capabilities of their existing one.

Take the FL2 as an example. If you want something new that has SUV/Estate practicality, 4wd and 1800-2000kg of tow capacity you're looking at the best part of £40k for something like a Skoda Octavia.

It would seem the Government may be (at last) riding to the rescue.

Jeremy Hunt has hinted that a deal could be imminent between the Government and Tata Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) over the development of a new battery factory in Somerset.

I think it is the new large industrial estate off M5 Jn23 called GRAVITY.



https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology...&ei=23

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somers...ds-4368240 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 82k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)