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| razmabaz Member Since: 20 Feb 2011 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 246   
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Diesel von fragwürdiger Herkunft Freelander 1 TD4 HSE - gone, 2 weeks after the Cat.Converter! Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto MY08 - Santorini black |
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25th Mar 2011 4:31 pm |
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| Past master Member Since: 30 Jun 2010 Location: Isle of Ely Posts: 2710
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Sorry that you both have felt it necessary to withdraw. YF, I have been sufficiently convinced by your arguments to use the 2-stroke oil myself, and I am satisfied with the result. However I don't think it's unreasonable that there has been an increasing clamour for PROOF. It seems bizarre that there should be (apparently) no published technical papers out there and although I'm grateful for all those pictures I'm not enough of a technician to be able to make anything of them. Without solid scientific proof then you are effectively just giving us your opinion/old wives' tales. I may choose to find some value in these, but I entirely (and increasingly) see the point of view of those who doubt. I think my next move will be to poll my contacts in the universities to see what they think. if I get anything positive I'll post it (with evidence). If not, well I'll know what to think. |
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25th Mar 2011 10:11 pm |
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| npinks Member Since: 28 Jun 2007 Location: Ls25 Posts: 20090
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I have been one who wanted the proof, but you can only ask for it so much, for whatever reason the proof isn't out there in a clear and understandable format, pictures mean nothing if your unable to compare.
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25th Mar 2011 10:23 pm |
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| chicken george Member Since: 05 Dec 2007 Location: N. Yorks Posts: 13289
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Snake oil from both of them. I know engineers who work with CR engines everyday. when I ask them about two stroke oil they look at me like I've lost the plot. At work |
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26th Mar 2011 1:18 am |
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| simont Member Since: 15 Feb 2011 Location: Sunderland/Newcastle Posts: 1809  
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Shame the thread has gone like this |
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26th Mar 2011 7:49 am |
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and with over 116,000 views - must be a record 
| npinks Member Since: 28 Jun 2007 Location: Ls25 Posts: 20090
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The thing with this thread it started going nowhere when they could not provide the data to back up what they was saying, then when it supposed to have been released then the manuals of the cars don't say anything about it
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26th Mar 2011 8:04 am |
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| EYorkshire Member Since: 18 Nov 2010 Location: (!) Posts: 4392 |
Each to their own, those who believe a stranger who purports to be a lawyer who has official proof but cannot divulge it must make their own minds up. Thank you YF for the interesting but unfinished article.
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26th Mar 2011 10:45 am |
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| LR Fan Member Since: 21 Mar 2011 Location: Oz Posts: 3 
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The information may be still here but without the supporting evidence it's actually of little value and just adding to all the other open ended threads on the net. I've followed the thread in the hope that YF and then DG would eventually produce factual documentation which I have not been able to find elsewhere. I believe YF's intent and forum persona are probably genuine even though some of her postings in the various german forums can appear contradictory. However, I'm perplexed with the statement made here regarding "diesel fuel of unknown origin" in owners manuals which was easily checked and found untrue. I note that YF drives new vehicles and changes them regularly. Why is long term wear an issue? DG appears to drive older vehicles not under warranty so I understand his concerns. DG failed to come through with the promise of meaningful photographic evidence. Below is a link to a report which is more along the lines of what I'd expect as a minimum. http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf There is no doubt in my mind that 2T oil increases the lubricity of diesel. However what is not known is whether this is at the expense of some undesirable side effect. None appear to have been reported, but that does not mean there aren't any now or may be in the future. The crux of the matter is that if you have been using a non recommended fuel in your modern hi-tech diesel and subsequently turn up at a dealer under warranty with a fuel related issue you may be in for a costly surprise if it's discovered to be your fault. Maybe not really bad on a 4 cylinder but an 8 cylinder would be interesting. Even if you had supporting documentation, you'd still struggle. I hope this thread can be kept alive as the information we seek is out there somewhere. To that end, below are more links to further reading which some readers may not yet have seen. The Californian government site in particular contains a vast resource of technical information relating to research and standards for diesel fuels. http://www.arb.ca.gov/diesel/diesel.htm http://www.blacklandy.de/blboard/forum/showthread.php?t=13591 (Use Google translate) http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=69378 http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=68220 Read these by all means but lets not get bogged down in the history and instead move on and continue the search for the hard fact. |
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26th Mar 2011 2:44 pm |
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| yamaha-fan Member Since: 11 Jun 2007 Location: Munich Posts: 324  
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one last word from me: you (happily) jump to conclusions!
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26th Mar 2011 5:17 pm |
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| npinks Member Since: 28 Jun 2007 Location: Ls25 Posts: 20090
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Thanks for the extra info |
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26th Mar 2011 5:35 pm |
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| Past master Member Since: 30 Jun 2010 Location: Isle of Ely Posts: 2710
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Y-F - Welcome to the pitfalls of translation. I doubt whether there is any English speaker on the forum who would not equate "handbook" with "owner's manual". The two have exactly the same meaning in English. Again, it would be appreciated if you could provide the exact reference to the "handbooks" concerned - are they available online? Deutsche Ausgabe wäre kein Problem! |
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26th Mar 2011 10:47 pm |
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| athelstan Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: Reality Posts: 2658 |
YF
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27th Mar 2011 10:13 am |
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| LR Fan Member Since: 21 Mar 2011 Location: Oz Posts: 3
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I don't know to whom the above may be directed but be assured that jumping to conclusions is not a personal trait. When a language is not the first language of a person, native speakers allow a good amount of leeway in the interpretation applied. Indeed the opening post states that 2-stroke oil added to diesel will “grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors”. Technically 'grease' is not the correct word but the meaning was understood and no-one complained. I could go on to analyse “every moving part”. Taken in the context of an ongoing technical motoring discussion, to plead that a handbook is different to a manual is barely credible. For clarification, using ‘Google Translate’, English words ‘handbook’ and ‘manual’ both produce the same German word ‘handbuch’. And conversely ‘handbuch’ translates to three possible English meanings, 1. manual, 2. guide, 3. handbook. No-one has accused you of lying, but it is untrue, i.e. not in accordance with fact or reality; false or incorrect, that “The use of 2-T oil for "diesel fuel of unknown origin" is recommended by VW in the handbook for the Amarok, by MB in the handbook for the G-model.” The recommendation may, or may not, be contained in another publication which you now call “the special handbook” but as yet this publication has not been sighted by the forum. Semantics aside, if the special handbook, had been the original term used, then that could have been more readily interpreted as something other than the ‘normal’ handbook. It would be good to see the special handbook to read whether any caveats apply. However, it does sound like it is only valid for a niche market purpose and not a public everyday recommendation. I’ll use the analogy of a space saver temporary spare wheel, only to be used if absolutely necessary, with limitations and warnings applied. |
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27th Mar 2011 10:16 am |
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| cressus_66 Member Since: 31 Jan 2010 Location: Alexandria Posts: 9 
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What's the general opinion about this:
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17th Apr 2011 11:52 pm |
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