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Just a driver



Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 428
United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

499 a month is ok as long as you have 500 a month coming in to cover it. What if someone is put on short time, overtime cut backs or laid off let alone sickness. How ever it’s dressed up debt is still debt
Post #442075 31st May 2024 3:04 pm
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Mowog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

£499 per month is NOT alright if it’s over 60 months and the car was only £24.000!



(There is no better feeling than not being in debt)
Post #442080 31st May 2024 3:32 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2082
United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Mowog wrote:
Dont exported models from China have a smaller, different type of battery, than the models kept in China?
Probably that type of battery is not allowed to be shipped in containers.

I believe China has strict controls on battery chemistry on imported vehicles, basically insisting on LifePO4 instead of NMC. This could be politically motivated though.
Unfortunately LifePO4 has a lower power density per kg or L of volume, so vehicles imported to China have smaller capacity batteries as a result. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.
Post #442083 31st May 2024 3:50 pm
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Mowog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

We are talking about EXPORT from China not import
The Kia will be made in China and exported with the smaller size battery?
Post #442084 31st May 2024 3:57 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2082
United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Just a driver wrote:
For lots more EV to appear it will need lots of people to agree to be in debt, or lease as they like to call it as it sounds better than debt. There is a lot like us who only buy what they have the money for, yes we will never have a new object but it will be our object. I can see a lot more propaganda going out to get more people into debt for an EV . I don’t see us getting one though.

True, but price parity is almost there, and in reality cars are cheaper now once inflation has been accounted for than when our Freelander 2s were first released.
For reference a Freelander 2 I6 HSE list price was £33,900 which in today's money is £61,359. Even my 2009 TD4 SE was £27,535, which today would be £49,383.

There are a lot of very good EVs available for sub £50k, and even more for sub £60k.
At the lower end of the market, EVs are now available for under £20k, which will increase as time goes on. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.
Post #442085 31st May 2024 4:05 pm
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MartynB



Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: Currently Rootless !
Posts: 1781
United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

Mowog wrote:
Good point
I would never have a car on hp,pcp,lease, tick,never never or whatever sounds trendiest.
It’s still DEBT.
If you take the price of a car xxx pounds
Why would you give a finance company xxxx pounds plus even more pounds?

I suppose half the people on the roads don’t even know how much the car cost!
It’s £499 per month end of.


Several reasons for not buying cash , my shooting organisation have a new deal with Toyota , 2.3% finance , forty grand in an ISA at 5% and I’d be over a thousand pounds a year better off than the cash sale . The loss of interest on savings when buying a car outright is a real part of the true cost of ownership . With any car you’re going to lose 40% of its value minimum over 4 years so if you’re a changer, not paying the capital on the part you’d trade is pretty smart . I think this is even more important with modern ‘ exec ‘ cars that depreciate like a brick , and with EVs which are high risk for big depreciation. The worlds smartest investor , Warren Buffet is credited with ‘ if it appreciates own it , if it depreciates, lease it ‘ .. applied to everything not just cars .

Having said that I’ve bought outright for years on private cars as I tend to keep for 8 to 10 years , enough time to sink all the cost to the point the car stops depreciating. When the day comes for an EV, some sort of a lease will be the smart move . 2009 GS Auto Zermatt Silver - Sold June 21 after 10 years of ownership

2016 Subaru Outback SE 2.0 diesel SE Premium Lineartronic Sold 2024 after 8 years and 80k miles . Best Car I ever owned !

2023 Toyota Hilux invincible X 2.8 Auto .
Post #442092 31st May 2024 5:29 pm
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Mowog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

You are entitled to your opinion
But it can be proved very wrong.
Post #442093 31st May 2024 5:41 pm
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Just a driver



Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 428
United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

Also people should head the warning, only gamble what you can afford to loose. If you’re laid off things go south very quickly
Post #442095 31st May 2024 6:18 pm
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Mowog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

If you buy for cash and circumstances change, then it’s easy to sell again.
( assuming it’s a sought after car)
Post #442098 31st May 2024 6:43 pm
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Just a driver



Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 428
United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

Sod’s Law dictates that if you have to , or need to sell then you find it is not sought after.
Post #442099 31st May 2024 6:52 pm
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Mowog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

Unless it was a Firenze red metropolis or a Mini Cooper s exclusive Thumbs Up
Post #442100 31st May 2024 7:04 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2082
United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Mowog wrote:
We are talking about EXPORT from China not import
The Kia will be made in China and exported with the smaller size battery?


Kia and Hyundai don't get many parts made in China, most likely for political reasons.
The battery in my Ioniq 5 was made by a collaborative company consisting of Hyundai and LG-Chem, in a purpose built battery manufacturing plant just outside Jakarta Indonesia.
I believe all vehicles using the E-GMP platform use battery packs from this manufacturing plant. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.
Post #442113 1st Jun 2024 6:57 am
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Mowog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

I was referring to the new EV5 that will be made in China
Post #442115 1st Jun 2024 7:05 am
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3156
United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

The earlier EVs are now available at quite low prices with all the modern bells and whistles.

This JLR product can even have air suspension -

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?ag...ar-to=2023 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)
Post #442116 1st Jun 2024 7:05 am
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AT1963



Member Since: 23 Nov 2021
Location: Leicester
Posts: 252
United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

If a lease is for 3 years and an EV takes 5-7 years to break even taking account of the manufacturing process then the car will not be environmentally neutral until the 5-7 year period is met which means the reason for buying an EV (better for environment) will not be met when you lease!!
Post #442117 1st Jun 2024 7:23 am
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