Hi All,

It has been an eventful evening with our 2010 FL2 Auto delivered back my home on the back of a recovery truck. I was hoping to call on the collective wisdom here to try and diagnose what might be wrong.

My wife was driving the car up a sight incline approaching a junction so she started slowing down and she described it as if the car was holding on to too high a gear and started to judder. Then she said the steering went very heavy and the brakes wouldn't work. The engine died and the gearbox was still in Drive at this point but the car began to roll backwards (I'm not sure about that??). She put it in Park and it still rolled so she applied the handbrake.

When she tried to restart to engine the dash lights came on but the engine wouldn't turn over, there was just a clicking noise from under the bonnet.

The recovery guy suggested that it could be a broken alternator belt but upon checking the belt was intact so perhaps it's the alternator that has failed. Does this sound plausible? If the alternator isn't working and battery runs out of charge while driving would it cause the auto box to misbehave? I get that the brakes didn't work after the engine died but should they have stopped working while the engine was still running? And the same with the power steering?

Any insights or suggestions would be much appreciated. I'll be out there in the morning with my toolbox but if I can get an idea where I should be looking that would be great. I have a spare battery, if I put it in the car and it starts up will putting my meter across the battery terminals give me an idea of the alternator's health?

Cheers,
Paul. 2010 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto

Last edited by CaptainBarnacles on 15th Oct 2023 12:21 pm. Edited 1 time in total

The auto box is controlled by a computer via solenoid valves, so yes a low battery can definitely effect the auto box. However from memory the park pawl is a mechanical one, which is operated by the selector cable, so it should have worked, although luckily it didn't or getting the vehicle onto the transporter would have been an issue.

The PS pump is engine driven, so should still work while the engine is running, but power assistance will stop the second the engine stops. The brakes are vacuum boosted, generally getting 3 to 5 boosted applications of the pedal before the vacuum is depleted.

It's possible the crank pulley has delaminated, which would reduce the effectiveness of the alternator and PS pump, while still looking like nothing was amiss with the belt drive. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

The alternator on my i6 failed recently.

The first symptom was the red check battery light came on in the dash. The car carried on operating normally. Eventually the battery lost all charge and the car rolled to a stop. The recovery truck operator diagnosed a failed alternator and used a power pack to drive the car onto the truck.

LR replacement alternators are c.£800 Others from the usual LR parts suppliers are c.£400 I got a new one off eBay for £150. If it lasts 50k miles that will do! Tim

Freelander 2 HSE i6 Stornoway Grey with Alpaca & Tundra interior
Driven many miles in:
2 FL2s
1 Range Rover P38
4 Range Rover Classics
Many military LWB & 1/2 ton Lightweight Series IIA & III

You can get alternators refurbished for less than £100, depending upon whats wrong with them.

Often its an electrical rather than a mechanical fault. Jules

Update: I managed to have a quick look at the car yesterday and I am now even more perplexed than before.

I checked the battery and it seemed OK but I swapped it out for a recently charged battery of the same size anyway just to rule it out. I put the key in the slot and it accepted it and brought the electrics to life so I'm not looking at a complete electrical failure. When I pressed the start button the only thing that happened was a bit of a clunk/click noise from what appeared to be the left side of the engine bay (the battery side). Could that be the starter motor gear clicking out onto the flywheel?

If it the starter motor gear is engaging the flywheel but isn't spinning could that indicate an engine seizure? Given how the car stopped I can't imagine that it's just the starter motor that's gone. Could the auto box have locked up on the engine side and is now stopping the engine from turning? I've had the dreaded torque converter judder the whole time I've had the car, could it be the TC giving up? 2010 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto

Nodge68 wrote:

The auto box is controlled by a computer via solenoid valves, so yes a low battery can definitely effect the auto box. However from memory the park pawl is a mechanical one, which is operated by the selector cable, so it should have worked, although luckily it didn't or getting the vehicle onto the transporter would have been an issue.

The PS pump is engine driven, so should still work while the engine is running, but power assistance will stop the second the engine stops. The brakes are vacuum boosted, generally getting 3 to 5 boosted applications of the pedal before the vacuum is depleted.

It's possible the crank pulley has delaminated, which would reduce the effectiveness of the alternator and PS pump, while still looking like nothing was amiss with the belt drive.

That all makes sense . I'll have a look at the crank pulley this morning, I forgot to check that yesterday. Is it something that can be seen or do I need to remove the belt to determine if it's delaminated? 2010 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto

CaptainBarnacles wrote:

Update: I managed to have a quick look at the car yesterday and I am now even more perplexed than before.

I checked the battery and it seemed OK but I swapped it out for a recently charged battery of the same size anyway just to rule it out. I put the key in the slot and it accepted it and brought the electrics to life so I'm not looking at a complete electrical failure. When I pressed the start button the only thing that happened was a bit of a clunk/click noise from what appeared to be the left side of the engine bay (the battery side). Could that be the starter motor gear clicking out onto the flywheel?

If it the starter motor gear is engaging the flywheel but isn't spinning could that indicate an engine seizure? Given how the car stopped I can't imagine that it's just the starter motor that's gone. Could the auto box have locked up on the engine side and is now stopping the engine from turning? I've had the dreaded torque converter judder the whole time I've had the car, could it be the TC giving up?

It's possible I suppose that the starter solenoid contacts are worn and that would explain why the engine won't now turn over. Is there a test I can do to ascertain if the starter motor needs attention without removing from the car? If not, can I just unbolt it, pull it away from the flywheel and try to start the car? That would tell me if the starter is defective or if there are bigger problems shouldn't it?

Back to why the car stopped in the first place, could it be the crank sensor? 2010 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto

Yes, it could be the crankshaft sensor.
Do a search of the forum for starter solenoid and user Ch4ppie.

UPDATE: I finally managed to find some time to have a proper poke around this morning and checked a couple of things that may hopefully offer some insight.

Firstly I put my meter on the battery and tried to start the engine. The battery voltage dropped from 12.86V to 6.7v. The starter make a bit of a clunk (presumably the solenoid engaging?) and then nothing else happens.

Next I tried my basic diagnostic fault reader (don't know why I didn't think to do that earlier) and it said there were two fault codes. In the engine section I have a P0725 - Engine Speed Input Circuit and it tells me that there's something in the A/T section but when I go in to stored codes or pending codes it tells me that there's nothing stored in the module. Could the P0725 relate to a crank sensor failure?

Click image to enlarge

P0725 gets me https://www.kbb.com/obd-ii/p0725/
from a search engine.
A you sure that the car isn’t locked in gear and you aren’t trying to make an ev out of it by trying to move in on the starter?
You really need the detail that a proper code reader can give from the extra digits available.

Make an EV out of it

It did kind of feel like the engine didn't want to turn over but the car didn't lunge forwards as I might imagine it would if it was stuck in a low gear. The starter hasn't been problematic which is why I wondered about a seized engine but your suggestion of perhaps being stuck in a gear amounts to about the same - the starter is engaging but can't rotate the flywheel. Is there a fairly easy way to manually rotate the crank shaft to rule out something like that? Is it just a case of getting a big bar on the end of the crankshaft pulley?

We moved the car yesterday by putting it in neutral and rolling/towing it but when it's in park I don't know if it has a gear selected.

Thanks for the link. Under the "Causes" section it mentions engine input speed sensor and transmission output speed sensor. Is the first one the same as the crank sensor?

What sort of money do I need to pay for a more detailed code reader? Any recommendations? 2010 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto

Just been reading this thread:

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic24454.html?highlight=p0725

which seems to offer a solution to P0725 code appearing through software updates. I'm not convinced that software alone will help here due to the unwillingness of the engine to turn over. Plus I'd have to get it to either LR or a gearbox specialist. I'm hoping for a cheap-ash fix. I threw £2k at it a year or so back and I'm not inclined to spend $$$ again given it's age. 2010 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto

UPDATE: I managed to get the fan unit out and then had better access to the starter motor. I disconnected it and removed it from the car. I put it on the bench and connected it up to a spare battery, it deployed the gear and span up without any hesitation so I'm happy that the starter motor is fine. 2010 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto

I might be wrong,I'm no mechanic, but as it's an auto the engine is not connected to the gearbox,only the TC.....cant you try an turn the engine with a large socket on the crank bolt. Dont try an move the car when its in park, its a mechanical lock.....could it be the timing belt snapped causing the engine to seize up..mike