The problem with synthesised fuels is where are they come from.
As a planet, space to grow crops is already limited, as millions of starving humans will attest. Now if they could be made from rubbish, then that would be a help, but it wouldn't scratch the surface on the fuel supply needed.

The Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) is also incredibly inefficient at turning chemical energy into kinetic energy, well under 40% efficient in fact, the remaining 60% is turned into heat.

Electricity on the other hand can be generated from clean sources and used much more efficiently, over 90% efficient on new BEVs.

Even if all the power to make the electricity for a BEV came from fossil fuels, it would still produce less CO2 and waste heat than using the fuel ICE in millions of vehicles.

I'm not anti ICE, far from it, I even have an i6 Freelander to accompany my TD4, but in the near future, there will need to be a global shift in how we use energy and what type, or the climate will continue to shift at an alarming rate, which will have a detrimental effect on us humans. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Some more pleasing news:


Lifeline for the combustion engine: EU agrees to allow cars running on e-fuels to be sold after 2035 - and UK will likely follow suit if they are 'zero emissions'
Story by Rob Hull For Thisismoney.co.uk • Yesterday 13:09

Nodge68 wrote:

Electricity on the other hand can be generated from clean sources and used much more efficiently, over 90% efficient on new BEVs.

Even if all the power to make the electricity for a BEV came from fossil fuels, it would still produce less CO2 and waste heat than using the fuel ICE in millions of vehicles.

All the data is available, if you know where to look.
BEV vs ICE efficiency is pretty easy to determine.
ICE is incredibly inefficient, less than 40% of the fuel they burn is turned into useful energy, the rest is turned to heat and lost.

The same amount of fossil fuel energy used in an industrial power station is almost 90% efficient.
So if this energy is used in an efficient BEV which is also about 90% efficient, then the environmental improvements are clear. However we now have access to plenty of cheap renewable energy sources too, like wind and solar, which can be used to charge a BEV. This makes a BEV much less polluting than an equivalent ICE vehicle, even if there's an excess of carbon produced in the vehicle's production.

Longevity isn't or shouldn't be an issue, one manufacturer is even giving a million mile guarantees on the batteries, but most offer about 7 years or 100,000 miles, all of which is more than any ICE vehicle except Kia.

Repairs is an interesting one, but there are already companies that repair the battery pack, so in a few years time, it's a issue that will become a none issue. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

All the data is available, if you know where to look.

Unfortunately I dont, so I was hoping you could point me towards a good source of info. Most searches produce loads of sites with very basic information about BEV types, sites trying to sell BEVs and sites with DM-like disinformation/codswallop. I'm more interested in the science, environmental and infra-structure side of things.

new Ford Explorer looks interesting
https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/electric-explorer Jules

Unfortunately jules whatever information you find or someone posts you need to make your own mind up about how true that information is
There is so much bad information out there its really difficult the main reason for the bad information is that being spread by people or companies that have a vested interest in stopping mass adoption of EV's even going as far as commissioning proper studies into the subject but using data sources that while correct have been cherry picked to prove whatever they set out to
Couple this to the fact that much of the technology in modern batterys is yet to have enough years and volume in real world use to have any data available about what happens at old age and end of life and although we are getting there now the first mass market EVs are only really 10 years old now and the batterys in those are miles away from what's in a new EV add the fact different manufacturers use different chemistry and configuration its really difficult to see what's what because whatever study you read it has bias one way or the other you need to try and read through the data and be your own analysist

My take on the vast swathes of information that's available is similar to nodge
Even if a BEV is run on coal produced electricity if it does enough Miles before being scrapped it will still be less polluting than a petrol or diesel equivalent because like nodge has stated above the efficiency of large scale generation the minimal losses of transmission and the efficiency of a BEV are just superior to internal combustion
The amount of miles it needs to do will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer as some are much better than others not only in production but also procurement

As far as infrastructure goes its getting better but it Is going through the chicken and egg stage where the investment on charging is only been made when demand makes it profitable but many are put off by this needing the infrastructure first so they can make a seamless transition

Me personally I think the best financial benefits of going EV are behind us the vast majority of free charging is gone free road tax coming to an end company car tax benefit scaling up each year and still they are more expensive to purchase than a petrol equivalent
I have loved my last 5 years with a tesla on the drive but not every thing is greener on the other side of the fence compromises have had to be made and changes to behaviour but the near 100k Miles that we have done have cost next to nothing compared to any petrol or diesel I could have bought instead its allowed us to travel without care for the cost which is truly liberating its like getting your licence and freedom at 17 again

Even if a BEV is run on coal produced electricity if it does enough Miles before being scrapped it will still be less polluting than a petrol or diesel equivalent because like nodge has stated above the efficiency of large scale generation the minimal losses of transmission and the efficiency of a BEV are just superior to internal combustion.

This alone says to me BEV is, currently, the way to go. Jules

Filled up my ford ranger the other day, stood in a sideward rain storm holding the filler trigger watching the costs scroll up on the screen.

reflecting on the absurdity of it, the £100 I poured into the tank would purchase 1/8th of a kw of solar panels which would serve me well for years charging an EV.

Just upgraded my system to 210kw panels , so it quite easy to catch enough sun to charge the car.


for interest, the tyres on the ipace lasted 25500 miles, still some tread depth left but too many tears in the tread. must drive it more sensibly and stop playing At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

pinhead wrote:

its allowed us to travel without care for the cost which is truly liberating its like getting your licence and freedom at 17 again

Truly agree with this, I dont have to cringe everytime the kids dont get the bus home as they are staying at school aftertime for band sport etc etc. 12 miles from home to school.

better for my wallet and better for their education, a win win. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

chicken george wrote:

Just upgraded my system to 210kw panels

How many panels do you have ? 
Hung like Einstein, smart as a horse.

shiggsy wrote:

chicken george wrote:

Just upgraded my system to 210kw panels

How many panels do you have ?

Just enough solar to charge the Tesla!

 Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

shiggsy wrote:

chicken george wrote:

Just upgraded my system to 210kw panels

How many panels do you have ?

Not sure the set up has grown over the years started on 250w panels, then some 400w panels. Latest addition 500w panels. Basically equivelent of 840 domestic sized panels
I now have a smart meter type box that limits export of power back to grid at 100kw .
Site usage can be upto 75kw at times so most solar production at one time will be 175. Never the full 210. So i can expect some limiting each side of noon on sunny days. Plug the jag in at that time and I will be getting 11 kw of free electric as the meter will sense the extra load and allow more production.

Today is the first day with the new set up and i could see 30kw of solar production and about 10kw imported grid electric. Rather a dull day not a great start At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Latest EV Scare story - although quite believable -

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/car-pa...&ei=23 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

It's just anti EV BS. How heavy do these morons think EVs are? They are just a few % heavier than an equivalent ICE vehicle.
They're not as heavy as full sized SUVs like D3/4 FFRR and Audi Q7s.

This claim was investigated at length by a couple of motoring journalists a few months ago, they found zero cases of car parks at risk.

It's just scaremongering by the anti EV brigade, same as tyre pollution BS. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

ipace weighs more than an E class merc less than a disco5, not sure if ice cars are fully fuelled when kerb weight is given. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race