Thousands of people have no idea, I've been trying for eight years, everything you do , wow I've cracked it , but the fault comes back, sometimes in days , sometimes months, even a new battery , cured it for a week.

RE -No Faults Today


Before anybody says it Im not going to live in a cold country

Richard you do live in a cold country !

Have I just stumbled across the reason for this phenomenon ?

After the pedal change I had temporary relief, but the issue returned. Engine flutter under load at 1500 ish RPM. Definitely temperature related or so I thought.

Out tonight and air temp 16 degrees. Stooped for fuel after 20 minutes mixed driving. Then the problem returned big time.

One thing that occurred to me was that I have never heard the cooling fans !? Temp gauge always go to halfway and never seen it go over, so was never really a concern.

So, I’m thinking now that it’s possible my AIT sensor is shot and giving false readings, which creates confusion with the ECU in demanding a different fuel air mix at the wrong time and changing the timing.

A bit of research and I stumbled across “Heat Soak”. Engine bay getting over hot and causing sensors to misread the current driving conditions. I’m also aware that the AIT in real terms is measuring air temp slowly (10 seconds or so).

Car going to Indy tomorrow to investigate. The lack of hearing cooling fans running, sensitive sensors being potentially cooked And giving false readings to the ECU (all of which have a part to play in regulating fuel air mix and timing), could create the perfect environment for the symptoms we experience.

Perhaps it’s not “Outside Air Temp related“, but “Engine Bay Temp related” ?

Any thoughts ? Will let you know what the Indy finds (if anything) “If you don’t know where you’re going, any road’ll take you there”

Hi Babyprince, surely the temperature gauge will not move once the engine has reached its correct operating temperature, it’s controlled by the thermostat , and should stop at the midway point , as mine does, (unless thermostat faulty, and then they are designed to fail open , so running cool) I have to say I have never heard my fan running, and neither did I on my freelander 1.
I have to say as in my previous posts , I’ve been at this problem for eight year’s without success . Everything you do can have various forms of a cure, it the fault just returns . My fault has now got to not happening until about 17 degrees outside temperature, where it used to be about 12 degrees . But the strange thing this summer it disappeared when the outside temp was showing 32 degrees.

I’m confused. If the car temp is controlled purely by thermostat, what are the fans for ?

Appreciate your comments; I’m at the beginning of my journey, so won’t be giving up just yet. I’m sorry you have not managed to find a cure for yours - 8 years is a long time, I’m not sure I could put up with it for that long.

Will update as and when I have anything positive to share. “If you don’t know where you’re going, any road’ll take you there”

You generally don't need fans. Back in the 70's before electric fans most cars had a fixed fan which was mounted on the water pump and rotated at engine speed. This was cheap but unfortunately used about 4/5hp when you don't actually need any cooling due to the forward motion of the car. Given that engines then were only about 60hp then you were losing up to 10% of your available power (and mpg) so a lot of people (including me) would remove the fan completely and if you got stuck in traffic and the temperature began to rise you just turned the heater on and opened the windows and this rarely happened. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

OR - if you were really flash you'd fit a Kenlowe Electric Fan - remember those????

Baby Prince wrote:

I’m confused. If the car temp is controlled purely by thermostat, what are the fans for ?.

dorsetfreelander wrote:

You generally don't need fans. Back in the 70's before electric fans most cars had a fixed fan which was mounted on the water pump and rotated at engine speed. This was cheap but unfortunately used about 4/5hp when you don't actually need any cooling due to the forward motion of the car. Given that engines then were only about 60hp then you were losing up to 10% of your available power (and mpg) so a lot of people (including me) would remove the fan completely and if you got stuck in traffic and the temperature began to rise you just turned the heater on and opened the windows and this rarely happened.

Back in the 80s sitting in a traffic jam on the Sydney Harbour Bridge in summer, the car started over heating.

Opened the windows & turned the heater on full. Just managed to get off the bridge & the traffic started moving a bit more. All ok in the end & I lost about a litre of sweat! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Quote:

grumsel wrote:

Seems they did change something. I found 3 part numbers:

LR000914 PEDAL, L359 FREELANDER, 6 SPEED AUTO AWF21 AWD, RHD to (V)7H054943
LR007640 PEDAL, L359 FREELANDER, 6 SPEED AUTO AWF21 AWD, RHD from (V)7H054944 to (V)BH242209
LR031903 PEDAL, L359 FREELANDER, 6 SPEED AUTO AWF21 AWD, RHD from (V)BH242210

On another site: LR031903 superceded product codes LR000914 and LR007640

Different part numbers are listed for manual and/or LHD cars:
LR031900 = Manual, LHD
LR031901 = Auto, LHD
LR031902 = Manual, RHD
LR031903 = Auto, RHD

Remap the EGR?

I have spent a lot of time this year trying to get to the source of the throttle hesitation problem on my Freelander 2.
I could be completely barking up the wrong tree, but my conclusion is that the EGR needs to be remapped. I don't want it to be blanked, removed physically or 'remapped out' completely, but I want the EGR mapping to give 'sensible' values.

It has done 50,000 miles, so I am assuming that there is no significant soot buildup causing the issue in the EGR.

This whole story is below:
When I first started looking into this problem, it was suggested that the turbo actuator was at fault - I replaced the turbo, but this never solved the problem.

Eventually, after looking at various codes from my Foxwell diagnostics, I found that the 'Commanded EGR%' went from about 20% sharply up to 60%, then back down again within about 1 second. Also, the manifold pressure value decreased sharply at the same time, indicating a drop in pressure. This corresponded to the throttle hesitation so this is why I am investigating the EGR. An example graph is attached.

So, I went looking for 'EGR remap' on the internet and found a few Youtube videos.

According to one Youtube video: 'Optimizing EGR Operation using EcuTek ECU tuning software' from MRT Performance, there are many EGR maps already at work in your engine. I don't know the details of them, but I assume that in some/all of these maps, there are values that dictate how much the EGR valve is to be opened. There may also be values to command the EGR cooler as well. Unfortunately, EcuTec is only for Honda, Subaru, Missan, Mazda and Ford, not Land Rover.

So I need to find someone who will verify that all of this is possible and alter all relevant EGR maps to provide 'sensible' EGR values i.e. stay at max 20%, rather than shoot up to 60%. This means that the EGR will still be active (and do what it should legally do) but the throttle hesitation problem should be drastically reduced, and my MPG might be better as well (see below).

The other thing that might explain why my motorway MPG is low (approx 27mpg), rather than approx 44mpg that the dashboard 'Instant MPG' displays is that the EGR is switched on for most of a long motorway journey.
Should your EGR make you burn more fuel to reduce emissions at 70mph?
Here is a conflict between lower emissions while driving at 70mph against using 20-30% more fuel. Surely at that speed it's better to use less fuel (by reducing EGR) rather than reducing emissions on a motorway at 70mph.

So, my main objectives of an EGR remap are to:
have a small EGR value when running at speed (i.e. 5% EGR when above 50mph),
have a max EGR value of about 20% at all other speeds (rather than spike at 60% causing throttle hesitation).

This means I can have the best of both worlds:
the EGR valve will be used regularly to reduce harmful emissions by a reasonable amount, and
we can save fuel by reducing the EGR values while at higher speeds.

So, if there is a EGR map which uses speed as a condition, then this should be switched off, or a very low EGR value should be used.

I'm still waiting to find out from the person who did my ECU remap, if he can also remap my EGR, but if anyone else know how to do this, then please let me know.

This is a common problem, so if someone can remap the EGR successfully and cure the throttle hesitation, there will be a LOT of people that could benefit from this.

I have said this elsewhere but worth repeating. My son had a 2011 facelift FL2 and often complained about the hesitation problem. We had it back at the dealers and even had LR involved but got nowhere. Then he went work in Africa and I took over the car for a year or so, during that time my wife and I never experienced the hesitation once even in hot weather. I can only conclude therefore, that it depends on your driving style (which is no excuse, of course). I traded it in for a 14 reg SD4 auto and we have never experienced any issues with that either.
My local dealer did tell me a few years ago that they had three customers with the problem but most of their FL2 clients were either living with it or not aware of it. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE