LR NUT wrote:

As it's been mentioned on here...times have changed and sadly so has JLR in order to survive! The Rover Group had the best shape LR's ever made ford and (BMW) briefly done ok as well. I sometimes wonder if the Rover Group still owned Land Rover how they would have reacted to streamlining LR's as Rover did make cars maybe LR may not had been taxed as heavily for not having an eco model! In 2000 the Rover Group parted and in 2005 it was all over! Sad times brings a tear to my eyes even now as I always remember the slogans as a kid in my dads landies "It's never over in a Rover"

I have always been wary of British Leyland/Rover. Back in the 70's I had a series of Ford Escorts and Capris and these were relatively trouble free. By comparison when I bought a Morris Marina I always seemed to be working on it, replacing the dampers, decoking the engine etc even the outside door handles snapped off. The upside was that I learned a lot about cars. At the same time my brother had his own business and used to have a new car every year, he went through series of Marinas and Austin Maxis that were always in the garage being fixed before he gave up and switched to Audi. Of course, all of this was during the time of "Red Robo" and the BL strikes.

I had 3 FL1s, the first a 1.8 petrol which had the head gasket problem, then two TD4 (manual and auto) with the BMW engine. BMW sorted out a lot of the FL1 issues and I found them very reliable.

So my view of Rover albeit a little dated is a bit jaundiced, but like any industry I suppose it comes down to company culture in the final analysis. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

I think a lot of drivers from a certain generation would agree with the above comments. In the 70's I was still a sprog so didn't have any experience of car buying but do remember all the strikes etc. I do rember though talking to a neighbour in the Summer of 1975 who had just bought a brand new Mini 1275GT (LHM 125P) I was 10 years old & I remember saying to him that when I get old enough to drive I will buy a British car built by a British man in a British factory. In August 1984 when I was 19 & working for an Austin Rover Dealer in Chatham I did exactly that - a brand new Rover 213SE in Monza Red.

By the 80's most of the strikes were gone though reliability was still patchy & many would say about body work rusting ( I have a Metro & Montego still today so know about that), however their bodywork issues were little different to most other manufacturers though a blind eye often seemed to be turned on them for some reason especially Mercedes.

By 1989 when the R8 Rover's (214,216,414,416,420 etc) came out many buyers had defected due to the dreadful 70's & patchy 80's though ironically this was the dawn of the best era in Rover's history but mud sticks. (Past) Freelander 2 HSE 2010 MY In Rimini Red.
(Past) RR Evoque Dynamic Lux Si4 In Firenze Red.
(Past) RR Evouque Pure Tech in Barollo Black with bespoke Firenze Red colour coding.
(Present) Freelander Metropolis 2015 MY In Santorini Black with Ivory Premium Leather.

The history is all very interesting, but the Rover Car company that designed the LR and the first Range Rover had nothing to do with BMC or BL, though the RR came out under the BL ownership. The first FL1 came out well into the BMW ownership, the engines could have been changed before the launch, however rising fuel costs decreed it probably launched earlier. The K series engine was developed under the BAE ownership when in partnership with Honda, the 1.4 engine was one of the most powerful units of its time, it was so good that when Maggie was trying to sell Rover to Ford any trace of that engine was removed from the factory during the Ford evaluation, The V6 engine was not used due to Honda vetoing its introduction as it made their V6 rather sick in performance. Had money not been short the K series could have been developed into an extremely reliable engine, in its early days there was not much about to touch it, perhaps if the cash had been about there may well have been a diesel version my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

About ten years ago when I had FL1's I used to look occasionally at an American forum, virtually all of the cars there were the V6 but there seemed to be serious problems with inadequate dealer support and a lot of talk about head gasket issues. A lot of owners joined a class action against LR USA but I don't know how it all ended. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

j77 wrote:

Yep, I keep my seats up.

 MY14 Kahn Converted Dynamic - Fuji White Ebony/Pimento Interior
MY15 Xenon Headlight Conversion

MY17 RRS SVR - Estoril Blue Cirrus/Ebony 🪣💺’s

Dartman the one wrote:

The history is all very interesting, but the Rover Car company that designed the LR and the first Range Rover had nothing to do with BMC or BL, though the RR came out under the BL ownership. The first FL1 came out well into the BMW ownership, the engines could have been changed before the launch, however rising fuel costs decreed it probably launched earlier. The K series engine was developed under the BAE ownership when in partnership with Honda, the 1.4 engine was one of the most powerful units of its time, it was so good that when Maggie was trying to sell Rover to Ford any trace of that engine was removed from the factory during the Ford evaluation, The V6 engine was not used due to Honda vetoing its introduction as it made their V6 rather sick in performance. Had money not been short the K series could have been developed into an extremely reliable engine, in its early days there was not much about to touch it, perhaps if the cash had been about there may well have been a diesel version

The test mule for the FL1 was a Maestro van, not the Discovery and purely to test the 4WD side which was of different design to the standard LR 4WD. Certainly the FL1 was in the design stage before the BMW takeover and probably well into the production prototype stage, i.e the major pressings were in existence. There were rumours the launch was delayed due to quality control problems on the production line, if so, then it was a BAE car, but at the BMW takeover stage they decided not to fit their own engines. This may well have been due to evaluating the K series and its future against BMW engines. Whatever the case with BMW they certainly didn't get the full electronic program for the various off road uses as the X5 is no match for the RR and neither are the smaller models to the FL2,Ewok and DS. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Unfortunately I actually worked in garages in the Morris days through too Austin days through to Leyland and Bristish leyland & Rover Triumph and onto Landrover jaguar Dealerships in the late 70's and early 80's
I don't have a good word to say for them ! there is no argument or excuse their build quality was abysmal !

In My Jaguar / Rover days we had a 24 bay workshop and 12 bays were dedicated for warranty work and they were always brand-new cars off the transporter that filled them constantly ! my god they were bad bad bad.

In fact I then went to work in an Opel dealership and was bored within weeks as we had so little warranty work and reliability was astounding in comparison.
We had a few whining diffs ( but never failures ) few failed water pumps and heater matrix's and the odd GM varijet carb that caused concern but other than that they were brilliant across the range.

If I had to list all the warranty issues and failures even before PDI on Austin/Rover jaguar cars I would be typing all day.
Sorry "The valeter" but true and still in the garage industry now as a technical specialist. Jaguar x-type sport gone
Jaguar x-type 2.2d sport one of my best cars ever sadly gone
Freelander 2 GS auto 2008 most unreliable ever ! gladly gone
Freelander 2 GS manual 2013 only time will tell !

In the mid 70's my brother came to see me at my new house which was up a reasonably steep hill in Derbyshire. When he arrived he said that his brand new Austin Maxi had only just managed to get up the hill in first gear. At the time there was an engine tuners strike at the BL factory which was on the news so I got out my Gunson's Colourtune (remember those? Like a glass spark plug so that you can see the colour of the flame in the cylinders) Within minutes I had adjusted the carb and the difference was unbelievable. But what a disgraceful way to send out a new car. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

I still have a Colourtune on the shelf in my garage! Not been used in years! (At least since I sold my MGB) 10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey (Now Gone)

08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

Always interesting to hear from folk that actually worked for them back in the day. I am fully aware the reliability particularly up to & including the 80's cars was shabby but there is just something about the whole of the brands that is nostalgic. I often speak to old factory or dealer employees from those era's & many just refer to them as,,,,,,,,,,," The Good Old Days" though possibly not from a customers or an economists point of view!! (Past) Freelander 2 HSE 2010 MY In Rimini Red.
(Past) RR Evoque Dynamic Lux Si4 In Firenze Red.
(Past) RR Evouque Pure Tech in Barollo Black with bespoke Firenze Red colour coding.
(Present) Freelander Metropolis 2015 MY In Santorini Black with Ivory Premium Leather.

The thing is that back in the day you could easily work on the vast majority of cars. Big ends, little ends, decoke, clutch et al were all within the capabilities of most folk with some axle stands and possibly a driveway. Today you open the bonnet and, for mere mortals, hardly know where to start. Topping up oil and water is the extent of my DIY  MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Well, I saw my first one on just now in Sainsburys car park - it was an HSE lux I think and personally, I thought it looked skinny and tall. Didn't like the black wheels either. Rear windows seemed very small compared to the FL2. Seemed nothing like the one I remember seeing on display at Bluewater shopping centre last year. Perhaps it will grow on me but if I was looking to change mine right now, I'd probably go for a later model FL2.

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Looking at the second pic, are the rear heating elements in the shape of the wiper travel arc?