The Doctor wrote:

One thing I do not think a computer will cope with is the standoff at a mini roundabout when everyone is giving way to each other. It requires one driver to make a move but the driverless car might crash in more ways than one

Seriously?! I did not think autopilot could handle a landing like that. What about the one in NYC that landed in the Hudson?

If autopilot really is so amazing, is there any situation it can't handle... LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

dorsetfreelander wrote:

The Doctor wrote:

One thing I do not think a computer will cope with is the standoff at a mini roundabout when everyone is giving way to each other. It requires one driver to make a move but the driverless car might crash in more ways than one

Actually that standoff is exactly how ethernet works when it handles multiple users with equal rights transmitting data packets on a network eg wifi. 802.11 CSMA/CD

PhD (a real Doctor)

Still can't see it coping too well with a roundabout standoff. It knows what is occurring but others may decide they will go or start to go then suddenly stop. Someone has to go first and the computer in the driverless car can't command them or halt them.

PhD (a real Doctor) - Good luck at the no sh t Sherlock awards  LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

According to the protocol no one has right of access, your laptop doesn't command the others to stop transmitting, They are simply aware that someone else is using the resource (ie on the roundabout ) so back off for a random prime number of milliseconds (so that two waiting don't come back again at the same time). Just like you or I would.
Getting late isn't it?

It would be interesting to see it in action that's for sure. Will they be fitted with winter tyres to better handle snow and ice?

A computer would struggle to navigate the car up a snowy and icy hill that hasn't been gritted on summer tyres. But then, it would perhaps know this in advance and navigate an alternative, more appropriate route.

Maybe that I, Robot film with Will Smith wasn't too far off after all  LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

What the computer does not have is "eye contact". You may think it insignificant, but a fleeting glance or meeting of eyes can convey so much information that a computer will never see. 10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey (Now Gone)

08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

The Doctor wrote:

Seriously?! I did not think autopilot could handle a landing like that. What about the one in NYC that landed in the Hudson?

If autopilot really is so amazing, is there any situation it can't handle...

dunkley201 wrote:

What the computer does not have is "eye contact". You may think it insignificant, but a fleeting glance or meeting of eyes can convey so much information that a computer will never see.

My views on the impact of driverless cars ... Will it really happen? I doubt it, there will be a long long drawn out process of who's technology works best and how it is implemented on the road, this will take years, by which time cars will be a distant memory and rapid transit systems will be in place. Why have loads of little engines when you can have one?

Then you have the infrastructure, predominantly satellite based, "Sun Spot causes havoc on A40" The cost o new infrastructure is too high and there is a bigger goal.

The Moon has been forgotten as countries now want to pursue Mars, cars will be forgotten as ever further reaching technologies emerge.

The real issue is not 'driverless cars' its 'car-less drivers', without work, which is all done remotely by robots there will be no money and people will not be able to jump into a driverless car anyway.

Projects for driverless cars has been around for some time.
The main idea behind project Prometheus was to maintain a safe distance between vehicles.
The project ended after it ran it's course.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Prometheus_Project Another member of the failed FL2 clutch/DMF club, twice.

Driverless trains will be the next thing, we already have the technology, look at the DLR. No reason why a train can't go from London to Edinburgh without a driver. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

^^^^That won't happen.

The DLR is a completely different system, isolated from anything else, as are the Central and Victoria lines where ATC is used. They are also metro systems, with frequent stops, not a major intercity route.

The ECML, apart from being far far longer, has at-grade crossings and the potential for situations that cat't be dealt with by driver-less systems effectively (people and trees on the line, varying weather conditions). The cost would be extreme and drivers would still have to be employed anyway. Use of the ATC on the LU, I understand, is not liked by most drivers.

ERTMS and ETCS (in cab signalling) is, on the other hand, going to become a common occurrence. Perhaps this should suggest where we should be looking to improve on our roads - to help drivers (ones that need it), rather than remove them.

The fact is that driver-less cars have no practical purpose - tram and metro systems are just more effective. I'm confident that any implementation of driver-less cars will not last long.

I think it would be a despicable thing to do to normal drivers - to make them reliant on complex electrical systems in someone else's car.

 Freelander 2 2007 TD4 Manual HSE Tambora Flame
Discovery 3 2006 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver
Previously: Freelander 2 2007 TD4 Manual SE Santorini Black

dorsetfreelander wrote:

Actually that standoff is exactly how ethernet works when it handles multiple users with equal rights transmitting data packets on a network eg wifi. 802.11 CSMA/CD

The idea of driverless cars using ethernet-like protocols is pretty scary, given that the CD stands for Collision Detection! Ethernet allows collisions to happen, then recovers from them.

The equivalent applied to cars at a roundabout would be something like this. Each vehicle looks to see if there's anyone currently on the roundabout. If there is, they wait. If there's not, they go. But in this case several vehicles may go at once, in which case there will be a crash. If there is a crash, the vehicles involved back out from the roundabout, wait a random period of time, then go again. At which time there may, of course, be another crash.

I think I'll walk...


As for driverless cars in general, on the clear open roads around here driving is, indeed, still a pleasure to be enjoyed. In cities and on crowded motorways, however, I'd happily hand over to the car and relax while the car deals with the traffic.

Actually they wait for a small random prime number of milliseconds so as to reduce the possibility of them all joining again simultaneously. However it would be clear to each car that moved that it was on a collision course well before it happened. As a human driver you can safely assume that Asimov laws rule in which case you can drive how you like and the robotic cars will have to avoid you. But would I trust it though?

Quote:

Actually they wait for a small random prime number of milliseconds so as to reduce the possibility of them all joining again simultaneously.

Quote:

However it would be clear to each car that moved that it was on a collision course well before it happened.