StevenA
Member Since: 16 Nov 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 17
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Scotster,
This is my understanding of the reasons for the slight de-tune. Feel free to correct where necessary. (I'll go and put my flame proof suit on now )
Land Rover / Ford / All manufacturers all slightly de-tune their engines due to the varying quality of fuel available world wide. This then avoids problems with poorer quality fuels in higher performance engines.
I know that Subaru state the minimum octane rating of the fuel that is meant to be used and they also offer a factory approved ECU upgrade that requires the use of super unleaded to run without performance issues.
With poorer quality fuels in more highly tuned engines this can cause reliability issues that would then be needed to be repaired under warranty at the manufacturers cost, hence the slight reduction in performance to compensate.
Due to the relatively consistent quality of fuel available to us, it is then possible to re-tune the ECU to take advantage of this without over stressing the engine excessively. Obviously if fuel of consistent quality is unavailable then a remap would be a very bad idea and may cause reliability issues.
The trade off is that if you use all of the available performance all the time (Thrashing it) then there will be a reduction in fuel efficiency as it will be throwing a lot more fuel into the engine. However, if you use the increase in torque for acceleration (i.e. overtaking) without changing to a lower gear then you may see a slight increase in economy due to reduced engine rev's.
As Paul says, if you are always driving flat out then you will shorten the lifespan of the engine whether it has been tuned or not. I also agree with the fact that the gearbox also has to be taken into account and by the looks of things the Spider Tune unit would not be very good for an auto box as they are quoting 540 Nm Maximum output (From the Banchory4x4 website figures). The Bluefin unit would be at the upper limit of the auto box at a max torque output of 442 Nm. Superchips do quote an increase of 84 Nm but not at the max torque reading (as seen in the power graph). These maximum values are usually set quite a bit below the maximum value that will cause failure to the box, but should not really be exceeded for a long and healthy life .
I guess that you would need to find out the maximum torque for the manual gearbox as well, before upgrading anything, however Superchips will provide a 12 month warranty on anything that has deemed to have been voided by the manufacturer as caused by the modification. How much this warranty can be relied upon is as yet unknown.
At the end of the day - you pay your money and take the risks if you choose.
Best advice is to research everything thoroughly before taking that choice.
As I said above, this is just my take on this. It is not to be taken as Gospel. - Disclaimer Finished.
If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.
Sorry for the ramble.
Cheers,
Steve
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28th Nov 2007 12:26 pm |
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scotster
Member Since: 29 Oct 2007
Location: Richmond, West London.
Posts: 241
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Top response Steven (assuming its corrrect)
If fuel quality is the main driver then surely you would release an ECU map for Europe and one say for Africa where you may have less consistent fuel?
A disclaimer to have the Africa ECU installed in case of driving in countries where fuel issues may be a concern would be all it would take.
Or a button on the dash that said 'premium fuel' 'standard fuel' or 'chip fat'
Anyway, your basic story sounds fine. Of course I understand all the stuff about thrashing the engine but the question I do have is would the engine log pick up on all this?
If I blew the engine/gear box couldi remove the unit (standalone units) or get the ecu reverted back to the original map and my trusty dealer would be none the wiser?
Still not going first with tuner
S. '57 GS TD4 in Stornoway. Privacy, Leather, Tred Cills. From ebay etc.. 18" 12 spoke HSE alloys, rear spoiler, clear side repeaters with clear leds, led interior light to replace bulbs, sports exhaust trim, TomTom 720.
Favourite Off road vehicle, still my Santa Cruz Mountain Bike! http://www.team-banana-racing.com
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28th Nov 2007 12:38 pm |
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scotster
Member Since: 29 Oct 2007
Location: Richmond, West London.
Posts: 241
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Cheers Steven.
I don't think the challenge would be cost - flashing a E2PROM with one map or another costs nada. I'm not sure that LR could manage that though especially if they can't manage to ship factory fit options such as climate packs that have been ordered reliably
Driving from UK to Africa? Do that often do we?
You just go for the Africa map from the outset, surely?
I'm sure the log would detect a Map or ECU flash, it may even reset it completely.
Anyway, enough rambling.
Who's going first? '57 GS TD4 in Stornoway. Privacy, Leather, Tred Cills. From ebay etc.. 18" 12 spoke HSE alloys, rear spoiler, clear side repeaters with clear leds, led interior light to replace bulbs, sports exhaust trim, TomTom 720.
Favourite Off road vehicle, still my Santa Cruz Mountain Bike! http://www.team-banana-racing.com
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28th Nov 2007 1:31 pm |
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StevenA
Member Since: 16 Nov 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 17
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Yeah, you're probably right about the potential for mistakes as this forum has quite a few examples of mucked up orders.
When I last spoke to my local dealers, he did say that they were carrying out remaps of the older models, but at the time there wasn't any available for the FL2. Don't know if this is still the case, but as far as he was concerned if you got their remap then the warranty would still be valid.
Don't know if this is still the case though.
I know a few people that have had their Subaru's remapped without any problems, but they have been custom maps due to exhaust modifications / new turbo's / etc. but they did not have the warranty issue to deal with.
I think if a dealer version was available then it would be a no-brainer, but I'm a bit like you and not sure about mucking up the warranty on a £20K+ car to get to the next section of road works quicker.
Had 2 Subaru's & a diesel Audi A4 and kept them all standard due to warranty concerns.
The Bluefin looks OK if your car is 2 years old as it has a 1 year backup warranty with it, but from new I too share your concerns with the manufacturers warranty.
Time will tell though.
It is up to the individual to decide if they see it as a worthwhile modification. Me - I like the idea, but also have concerns over the warranty so doubtful if I would do it. I just found the web site so thought I would let people know who may be looking for a bit more power that can be set back to standard as they wanted.
I have bigger doubts over the plugin units as I don't understand how they work with the ECU. At least with a remap all the factory safe guards are still available. I don't know if this is the case with the plugin units as they appear to trick the ECU into changing the fueling which could cause problems to be missed by the factory units.
Best advice is that if you have doubt's about it then give it a wide berth.
Also if you are not that bothered about a slight increase in performance then save your money.
However if that two don't describe you, then go for it & let everyone on here know about it to allow them to make a more educated decision.
Cheers,
Steve
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28th Nov 2007 2:13 pm |
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