Hi guys

this is getting very interesting and very technical now. I think it is time for YF to share with us some empirical data (without mentioning manufacturers though ) what the warranty depts of the industry have picked up on this topic.

One aspect that is of great importance here is also the quality and cleanliness of diesel (there are areas outside the EU ) where diesel is sold. The lack in quality of low suphur diesel plays a major part here.

The lowest sulphur content diesel manufactured on a global scale comes from the Sasol refineries in Sasolburg and Secunda in South Africa. This is done by the Fischer Tropsch method, where oil is extracted from coal. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Last edited by DiscoGeorge on 11th Mar 2011 4:37 am. Edited 2 times in total

It would also be interesting if she could confirm (or deny) the claim about the German military use for 2-stroke oil when running JP-8 or diesel of unknown quality.

And I'm hanging out for the pics of the CR HPPF, Disco George.

Also, do you know what the sulphated ash level is in your manufactured diesel? I remember briefly studying the Fischer Tropsch method in a university course and thinking "that'd be useful here one day..."

Hi kaanage

I don't know the exact figures, but the Sasol diesel has to be mixed with 500ppm diesel to get to 50ppm ULSD. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

DiscoGeorge wrote:

after my return to office in SA on 16th March I will then go and see the guys and post the pics.

Just a post to say that I, for one, am still looking forward to seeing the HPFP pics!

me to.  Don't put petrol in a diesel. They don't run well.

Sorry to day this, but I don't think that the pics alone from DC will be able to proof anything to the menbers of this critical forum, as most readers will not be able to interprete them correctly.
Yes, the German army has for many years ruled the use of 2-T oil for their diesel vehicles/tanks.
With regard to soot-factor of diesel fuel this is regulized for participating countries in the ACEA papers, normally < 0,6 vol%. A good ACEA FC 2-T oil has an ash content of < 0,04 %. However. every car manufacturer designs the capacity of the DPF according to their philsophy of lifetime of components. As kaanage says correctly, soot is not qual to ash and vice versa. And ash cannot be burned and will remain in the DPF. So some car manufacturers design their DPF generously to provide room for sufficient ash deposit and others do not, and the DPF will have to be replaced when full. A costly exercise. The use of a good 2-T oil will reduce the soot-particles and consequent burn-free process of any DPF by at least 100% with the effect of reduced ash deposits in the DPF.
Some German car manufacturers such as VW, Audi and MB now officially recommend the addition of 2-T Oil for "diesel fuel of unknown origin".

alex-p I cannot understand your constant complaint that you are not convinced that the addition of 2-T oil will increase the liquidity of ulsd-diesel. n-pinks has submitted the results of the diesel fuel lubricity study of "the Diesel Place". This study clearly shows the wear-reduction expressed in HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) of the tested diesel engine to the extend of 26% (HFFR ULSD = 636 - HFFR ULSD plus 2-T oil = 474).
Wear reduction is only achieved through proper liquidity, and if this Diesel Place test result cannot convince you, than I do not know, what can convince you.

The same Diesel Place report states that the blend with 2T oil is unconventional, not ULSD compliant and may damage 2007 or newer systems, as FL2 is...

Seeing is believing. We aren't here at the Sunday church to belive without seeing anything that someone tells us.

I've kept asking for official proof in any of the cases, as any (even a stupid) technical inclined person will ask.
Proof as in pictures of mechanical components or photocopies of the documents that officially support your affirmations.

If you think that most of the members of this forum are so stupid to "not be able to interprete correctly" the photos of DG, then for sure they will be able to interprete correctly some links to the official information where "some German car manufacturers such VW, Audi and MB now officially recommend the addition of 2-T Oil for diesel fuel of unknown origin".
Or you won't be able to provide them either ?...
Or maybe you'll be able to provide a link to some official information where "the German army has for many years ruled the use of 2-T oil for their diesel vehicles/tanks" ???

Thank you!

Alex is right in this - if there are now "official recommendations" then please let's have a link to them. Don't worry if they're in German - there are plenty on here who can übersetzen.

Past master wrote:

Alex is right in this - if there are now "official recommendations" then please let's have a link to them. Don't worry if they're in German - there are plenty on here who can übersetzen.

Hi guys and gals

nice to see that YF is back on the forum again. I have started in my office yesterday again after two lengthy stints overseas.

On Tuesday next week (Monday is a public holiday in SA) I will go and hunt down the information that you guys are so eagerly waiting for.

As far as Alex-P's hesitations are concerned, 2sO in diesel fuel is enhancing the combustibility of the diesel, This by nature will lead to a more complete combustion and therefore less solid residues.

So guys as I mentioned some three weeks ago, I will tackle this after the 16th. By end of next week you should see some detailed info.

For those of you who are still so hyper critical, there is an old proverb:

Critics are like Eunuchs - They know how to do it .........

I know this is tongue in cheek so until next week then  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Yamaha Fan

can you please give us some indication (empirical) on the growth in CRD component failure since the advent of 50ppm diesel and the addition of higher concentration of bio diesel due to its hygroscopic properties.

I know that you cannot name manufacturers, but it would be interesting to see what % increase there has been across various manufacturers on an average.

Here in SA LR and Toyota have major problems with this. I have just bought a Disco3 for the Mrs, where the pump AND injectors failed at 130'000km. On the Toyota D4D CRD motors failures typically occur between 80'000km to 120'000km. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

yamaha-fan wrote:

Some German car manufacturers such as VW, Audi and MB now officially recommend the addition of 2-T Oil for "diesel fuel of unknown origin".

Hi yamaha-fan

Firstly, I'd like to thank you for bringing this topic to light - I have joined this forum after following 3 links to get to the original source of discussion

Along with Past master and alex_pescaru, I would also like to see links to the recommendations you have mentioned. In my case, it's to reduce the FUD being expressed about 2 stroke oil use in diesels on the forum where I first found this practise being discussed.

DiscoGeorge's pics are also of interest to me as one of the doubters on this other forum is a long time (decades) diesel mechanic.

Alex than please read (and interprete) the Diesel Place Study correctly.

With my limited understanding of things I interpret the followings:
1. The greater the HFRR score, the bad the situation is.
2. The diesel-2T oil mix score is 474, which is over the 460 score required/requested by Engine Manufacturers Association. Indeed, marginal, but still over the fence on the lion side...
3. The Diesel Place says that using 2T oil is not ULSD compliant and may damage 2007 or newer systems.
Am I missing something? From lubrication point of view, of course...

Indeed, the 2T oil improves the HFRR score, no doubt about it, but still below EMA requirements. Why not using Opti-Lube Summer Blend then? Is cheaper and the HFRR score is way better, over the EMA requirements.

As I've said, I'm still waiting for some official paper that endorse such usage.
Is that such a bad thing and can a person be blamed for that?
And by official I mean an automotive manufacturer, not The Diesel Place, because the Diesel Place won't repair and replace my engine's warranty.
Maybe, as I've kindly asked, you'll shed some light and post a link to the info where VW, MB, etc, endorse such usage...
Thanks again.

yamaha-fan wrote:

Alex than please read (and interprete) the Diesel Place Study correctly.