Alex, your conclusion is not correct: we are indeed looking for lubrication AND cleaning properties of 2-T oil.
I have tried to explain the requirements of diesel-engines with DPF (diesel particulate filter) with regard to fuel quality, in particular to low ash requirements to keep the DPF healthy.
What Dico-George tries to explain is correct, BUT with emphasis on contaminated fuel (diesel), which is normally not the case in Western Europe.
You may be aware of what the engine experts call "cylinder washing"´, a phenomene happening to every cold engine during warm-up. The excess (unburned) diesel washes the oil film of the cold cylinder walls, and the diesel-oil mixture will contaminate the motor oil. If your diesel has a high sulphur content, you can judge for yourself what will happen. 2-T oil increases the Cetan-number of diesel by 3-5 points, therby increasing the burning temperature, and -after all- shortening the warm-up of the engine considerably. So adding 2-T oil to your diesel will have two major benefits: cleaner burning and better lubrification.

npinks: please keep your phantasy under control. I do not like the idea that someone of this forum may have
any personal interest to support my views and recommendations. Do not forget - I am a lawyer.

To all participants: please let us keep this discussion on a professional level without personal credits or discredits. What I have published in this forum is my personal view, professional experience and private advise. Any reader may accept my views or disregard same. There has not been a reported single case in the world claiming engine failure due to adding 2-T oil to the fuel. Neither has been a single reported case of warranty-rejection by any car manufacturer due to the use of 2-T oil.

YF

Hi Yamaha Fan

your comments on cylinder washing are very valid, especially in (european) winter time. The contamination of engine oil in Southern Africa or also in Eastern Europe is of major concern due to the high sulphur content beyond the borders of SA.

What irritates me on this forum is the fact that statements are made by certain contributors, where you can see from a mile away that their knowledge of the subject is rudimentary at best.

With my over 36 year experience with matters automotive (cars, trucks tractors etc) I am always looking for new avenues to extend the lifespan of my vehicles.

Thanks for sharing your very extensive knowledge on matters automotive with us.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

edited my comments out, no disrespect was meant as it was clearly said in jest

I think i'll leave this thread where it is, nothing more can be said on my part, or on my view to this whether there has been any failure due to this or not and/or the benfits of adding it

Maybe one day there will be, maybe Shell/BP already know this and are working on getting it back in at the pumps

let us know when a official document is going to be publish if you get wind of one, i'll buy a few shares in a 2T oil producers and retire on the windfall when the whole world starts adding it, untill then i'll save my money (but not my engine)  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

DiscoGeorge, you are correct in all that you've said and I totally agree.
But I've brought to attention a particular case, an experiment if you want, of a CRD system where there is no burning involved. Just fuel being recirculated.
The fuel isn't burned and even the temperature of the fuel isn't raised above the point it is inside the CRD system.
Imagine a closed circuit where the fuel is taken from a bucket and sprayed/injected in the same bucket.
(My) idea/question is: by adding 2sO (1:200) to this bucket, are the CRD components more protected than the case when it isn't added?
If yes, there is any proof to this? Did someone made some tests? And if yes, which are the results?

yamaha-fan, I understand that in reality the benefits are multiple, but for the moment, I am interested only in the lubrication properties of the 2sO.

Because, you know, indeed the 2sO could be considered a fuel oil because of its contents of petroleum oils, but, in my opinion, and I could be wrong, the lubricating properties are given, in most cases, by the calcium alkyl polimers inside which are remaining _after_ the burning process. But what about before burning???

DiscoGeorge wrote:

What irritates me on this forum is the fact that statements are made by certain contributors, where you can see from a mile away that their knowledge of the subject is rudimentary at best.

everyone has an opinion, and as such are allowed to voice it Its more irritaing when people won't accept that  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Hi Alex

to answer your question regarding lubricity of diesel spiked with 2sO if you were to run a comparative test then the diesel with 2sO will win hands down.

You must remember that ULSD 50ppm spiked with 1:200 2sO has a much higher lubricity index than 500ppm diesel.

To get in-depth information about this topic, order this publication as explained on page 27 of this thread

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/mcb/...3/art00001

The fact that diesel spiked with 2sO also burns much cleaner is an added benefit  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Last edited by DiscoGeorge on 22nd Nov 2010 4:58 pm. Edited 1 time in total

2 things:

1) DiscoGeorge a Pommie is an English immigrant, so we in England certainly ain't pommies

2) The machines we used to run, for the best part of 40 years in my family doing 10's of thousands of hours engine running time never had any additives in and worked perfectly well with no mechanical faults attributed to the sort of issues you guys are saying can be 'avoided' with 2T oil, so my opinion, until Castrol or one of the highly respected oil company's show's evidence (because you can bet your bottom dollar they've tested this) is that standard diesel is fine. From my experience engine wear doesn't cause a vehicle to end its life, some stupid electrical problem does rendering the car brain dead.

A Castrol rep once told me a couple of years ago when I specifically asked about fuel additives on petrols and diesel;

'We spend millions on testing and developing new, and existing products on the market, and we don't sell or endorse any' Mine: 2012 Golf GTI Edition 35
Family's: 2009 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto, Stornoway

Yorkshire - God's County

OK. Let's say it has better lubricity. And I tend to believe that it is so. From engineering point of view makes sense.
But I will bring back another issue, raised sometime ago, also on this thread.
What about when temperatures are very low?
The 2sO, like any oil tends to have an increased viscosity on low temperatures. Therefore it increases the viscosity of the diesel fuel.
Do you know that there is a Technical Bulletin from LR (LTB00277), where it states that on very low temperatures, the filter meshes inside HP fuel injectors are clogged probably by the paraffin contained inside diesel fuel?
Won't adding 2sO will worsen the situation on cold temperatures?
Isn't it better to not add 2sO when temperatures are low?
Or you must/it is better to add another additive with non-gelification properties?

Last edited by alex_pescaru on 22nd Nov 2010 5:11 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Hi Big Dave

the full extent of damage to CRD systems due to ULSD will only become evident in Europe in years to come. Here in SA it is not uncommon for a bakkie (pickup) to do 150'000km per year, which in the case of the big daddie bakkie in SA would be two sets of injectors per year without 2sO.

I myself drive currently abour 85000km per year. Used to do 150'000km + per year. So that is why I am VERY interested in any new developments regarding 2sO.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Hi Alex

the point you raise is valid. I would like YF to go more into detail on this one as she has access to more information from the oil companies.

But in general, the addition of 2sO will aid with the cold start properties of diesel down to approx -7 to -10 degrees. As far as cold start properties are concerned, there is an alternative method to cold weather additives and that is a heating coil incorporated into the diesel filter in the engine compartment. Racor makes such devices. The lubricity of diesel spiked with 2sO will not be altered in cold temperatures, only the viscosity (flowing speed) of the diesel.

The viscosity of 2sO at very low temperatures is superior to that of diesel fuel. So adding 2sO to diesel in winter will also have a beneficary effect.

I cannot give you more info on diesel fuel composition for very cold climate. When I was still in the swiss army we used to have a special cold climate diesel. We also had NOX injection for cold start. But this we could only use with the engine cranking. Otherwise damage to the engine would result. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

I have witnessed in my professional capacity many long-term engine tests with regard to applied engine technology, production standards, oil qualities, testing conditions and the like, all within the set (claimed) parameters. I have NOT come along a "cold" engine testing as Alex is sugesting. Alex, your idea is very theoretical, as most physical and chemical reactions take place under pressure and heat. What kills the high pressure diesel pump (normal temperature) is inadequate lubricity (or dirt). What kills the injectors (very high pressure and temperature) is inadequate lubrication in combination with clogging of the injector needles due to soot and sulphor deposits. I have seen the inside of hp-pumps and injectors for analysis after such tests, and you will be surprised what standard diesel according to DIN may do to such components under varying conditions.
In Western Europe diesel fuel is sold from -I think- November onwards as so called "winter diesel" to prevent paraphin flocking up to -20° C. This winter diesel containes different additives. But its lubricity is not increased.
So adding 2-T oil to winter diesel is a good thing with all benefits claimed.

YF

Yamaha Fan

you have raised two critical issues in your reply to Alex. The one is the damage to CRD pumps due to lack of lubrication and the other is the damage to injector nozzles due to carbon soot and sulphur deposits.

LR FL2, Disco3 and Disco4 problems in SA are mainly centred around CRD pumps packing up due to a lack of lubrication or contamination of dirt particles. In most cases with LR fuel system related breakdowns, it is this pump that is really at fault.

For those of you who are still hesitant for whatever reasons, the 2sO takes care of the pump problems and due to the extremely clean burning of the diesel-2sO mix, problems with injectors are eliminated to a very large extent as well

Thank you once again YF for bringing this to our attention. You are one of very few forum members with a thorough understanding of matters lubrication, combustion and tribology.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Tribology = friction coefficients, specific wear rate/wear factor, physical properties.

YF

Hi Yamaha Fan

thanks for spelling it out for the forum members  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Facinating thread, only just joined the forum but by chance came accross this thread and have read every post with interest.

There are always sceptics with any variation from the norm and this tread is no exception but.....here are my experiences.
Just got the Freelander 2 TD4 Auto Diesel.
Previous I had the Freelander 1TD4 Manual Diesel.
My old car had done 130.000mls, nothing has ever been done to the Engine apart from the regular Oil change.
I added Oil to the tank every 3rd fill-up (about a 1/3rd litre) and have done so for the last 8 years.
That engine is as efficiant today as it was 8 years ago.
Ministry of Transport Test last month showing emissions of 1/3rd that allowed.
Examiner said that he could not believe that the Engine had done the mileage and was comparable with one that done less than a quarter of my mileage.
Started out using the Fuel Additive but was told by a Inspector Mechanic from Lookers (ex Rolls & Volvo Marine)to try the cheaper 2stroke.
Used it ever since but have not yet filled my newer vehicle, thanks for the reminder and the back-up of my old freinds advice.
He would have been interested in this thread but he sadly died last week Offset your Carbon emissions by boycotting Baked Beans and all Green Vegitables.