If I am permitted by the board-sheriff I am pleased to report my experience with the QQ 2,0 litre dCi with DPF:
I have added the dosis of 2-T oil from day one and have not experienced any DPF-clogging due to excessive short distance driving as on today (9.987 km). The normal cleaning of the DPF takes place around every 600 to 700 km (Nissan-info), but with the 2-T oil addition the DPF cleaning will extend to 1.300 to 1.400 km - as per my monitoring. I test-drive the QQ for 3 months with special emphasis on DPF-behaviour. More I am not permitted to report under my agreement with my client.

Hope that this will suffice.

YF

Thank you YF, really appreciate.

I'm with YF on this, I have been using 2 stroke oil since the car was new and have been pleased with the mpg and general performance delivered. If I could get it, I would go further and use bio as I used to in my defender at a ratio of 90%, but the supplier has been muzzled by the incompetence of local government, one department giving him approval to produce and market the stuff, and another prohibiting him!
While I used it in the defender, the car worked perfectly, ran cleaner, much more smoothly (TD5), and gave much improved mpg.
Government does not want to encourage improved MPG (loss of revenue), and manufacturers do not want to encourage improved engine longevity for the same reason.
It's up to us users/consumers to try to dictate to them what WE require, and tip the balance in OUR favour for once. Proper cars.
See me also at Clandeboye defender on Defender 2

yamaha-fan wrote:

If I am permitted by the board-sheriff I am pleased to report my experience with the QQ 2,0 litre dCi with DPF:
I have added the dosis of 2-T oil from day one and have not experienced any DPF-clogging due to excessive short distance driving as on today (9.987 km). The normal cleaning of the DPF takes place around every 600 to 700 km (Nissan-info), but with the 2-T oil addition the DPF cleaning will extend to 1.300 to 1.400 km - as per my monitoring. I test-drive the QQ for 3 months with special emphasis on DPF-behaviour. More I am not permitted to report under my agreement with my client.

Hope that this will suffice.

yamaha-fan wrote:

Hi ou toppie, your first question is difficult to judge as many other parameters will have to be considered.
But it is never too late to add the recommended dosis of 2-T oil to your diesel. As the 2-T oil has an astonishing cleaning effect on deposits build up in the engine and related parts (mainly soot and sulphor) you may experience some noise for a very short while (loosened deposits rattle in the exhaust), but such noise is normal and will stop soon.

YF

good morning YF and ou toppie!

I have been following the deliberations in this thread for some time now. I am writing technical articles and comments in SA for the LROC and the MBCSA.

I would like to comment on the practice of adding 2-stroke oil to diesel fuel and also to the debate of 500ppm versus 50ppm diesel.

First the diesel question: Apart from the Sasol 50ppm diesel, all the other 50ppm brands are imported into SA. Until a few years ago we didn't have a legal stipulation to disclose the sulphur content of diesel. It was quite common for diesel in SA to have a content of up to 3000ppm. From those days stems the practice to half the engine oil change frequencies.

For those of you posting negative comments on this thread about why they don't believe and/or support YF's tips on using 2sO (2-stroke oil), there is a very quick and efficient way to scientifically proof the devastating effectiveness of using 2sO.

Take an oil sample and send it to Wearcheck for analysis. Then do an oil change and immediately start using 2sO together with 50ppm diesel. As a first dosis add 1litre to every 100litres of diesel only for the first tank. from there on go with YF's suggestion of the 1:200 dosis.

Drive like that for 5000km and take a further oil analysis. If the oil is fit for further use, repeat at 7500km and at 10000km. You will now have a benchmark and adjust your oil change frequencies to suit. I change at 7500km because I drive an old type 300Tdi engine.

Specific to SA conditions the following will happen. During the first 1 or two tanks you will feel at times a vibration coming from the engine coupled with some scary blue smoke belching out from the back. This is quite normal and is a sign and proof that the carbon deposits are being burnt off.

You will be amazed how much smoother the engine will perform after about 5-10 tanks.

Yamaha Fan must be congratulated for her willingness to share her insights with us.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Dave wrote:

What I can't understand is that someone (in this case YF) joins a forum, makes a claim about something and nobody questions it.

As far as I am concerened, it is bullshit unless evidence can be supplied to verify the claim.

Do people on here really believe all that they read in newspapers, probably not, so why believe something typed on a web forum

just my 2p worth.

Hi Dave

We have been using 2sO here in SA in various car clubs for years now and because of our country specific problems (dirty diesel, diesel stretched with paraffine etc) we have no other alternative. One of the rice bowl manufacturers, selling bakkies into the SA market for longer than I can remember, have a serious problem at present, with their CRD engines going through injectors at a rate of approx. every 80'000km. This is as a direct result of diesel being sold with insufficient lubricity. Land Rover are loosing CRD pumps at an alarming rate on their Freelander and Disco3 and 4 models as well as on the RR diesels.

But these failures only affect owners of vehicles who refuse or are not aware of the benefist of 1:200 ratio of 2sO mixed in with the diesel.

So the advise that YF has been giving to this forum since 2007 is of immense value. But there will always be people who dispute every positive new development, for whatever reason.

Dave I would suggest that you take off your myopic glasses and start seeing the benfits.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Right or wrong the info provided on this thread, although I do believe in somecases people have benefitted, is just that one or two people personal findings

But I have seen no official documentation from YF on this, due to what I believe is her work been carried out etc and due to this people will still be causious of what is read on a forum

You could say if it is some wonder additive then why dont manufactor recommend it been added, or build in a system where it automatically adds a dies to the mixture if normal fuel is so bad for the engines, after all they are the ones who make the engines to run on the fuel provided

Basically more official documentation is required if the theory is to be believed and people started risking their £££££ engines on a forum thread. Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

npinks

the diesel fuel debacle that we find ourselves in a the moment has to be split into two VERY different categories:

1. The gap between overzealous politicans green tinted ambitions and the ability of the motor manufacturers to follow suit. The addition of bio-diesel in Germany to ALL comercially sold motor car diesel. Bio-Diesel in D is a concoction of raps seed oil and ethanol. And ethanol, as we all know is hygroscopic....

2. The dubious quality of diesel in developing countries (also in eastern Europe) due to "stretching" the diesel with paraffine etc.

Motor manufacturers cannot endorse a practice such as adding 2sO for various reasons, and I am sure Yamaha Fan will back me up on this one:

1. Manufacturers recommending 2sO practice could lead to possible liability or class action suits for "inferior design" etc.

2. Adding 2sO by fuel retailers will lead to government intervention re: composition of diesel fuel which is governed by law.

However addition of 2sO by vehicle owners is seen under the same light as adding an additive and those are freely (legal) available all around the world.


2sO in JASO-FC grade is a fuel oil and as such compatible with compression ignition engines. The main difference of 2sO to diesel is that it burns MUCH CLEANER than diesel and also has a much higher lubricity index. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

npinks wrote:

Basically more official documentation is required if the theory is to be believed and people started risking their £££££ engines on a forum thread.

yamaha-fan wrote:

Besides the positive impact on pollution-control, I would choose the low sulphor diesel PLUS recommended dosis of proper 2-T oil. In the sum of its effects this combination is the "better" fuel, as sulphor has negative effects on the motor oil and cleanliness of the engine in general.

YF

Ou Toppie

in SA I use the Sasol 50ppm and the Sasol Corwa120 2sO. Sasol is in the process of repackaging their oils and the new canisters (currently only in 200ml) very clearly state JASO-FC compliant. Sasol Corwa is a low ash formula suitable for premix and oil injection.

On your Freelander use 1 200ml bottle per fillup. That will give excellent protection  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Dave wrote:

chicken george wrote:

tried that........ Mrs G got pregnant

I know

Hi guys

the Fischer Tropsch method was developed in Germany after 1925 and entailed the fuel from coal process.

This was adopted by Sasol in South Africa and for the last 30 odd years has been one of the main fuel suppliers in SA. Sasol runs two fuel from coal plants in Sasolburg near Vereeniging and in Secunda near Witbank/Middelburg.

The diesel extracted by Sasol is the cleanest diesel available in SA and also the one with the highest cetane rating at 47 (in Germany 52-23). For the MB, BMW and VW CRD engines this is still to low and here in SA we apply the 2sO addition for two reasons. To add lubricity and to up the cetane rating of the diesel.

It works like a bomb.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Dave wrote:

All I pointed out was that YF hasn't produced any hard concrete evidence on the subject and the info she has supplied therefore I choose not to follow the crowd.

It's your engine, do with it as you wish but if/when it goes tits up who are you going to blame

VW Golf1 Diesel sold in 1998 with 1'053'000km

MB 300DA (W123) sold in 2004 at 495'000km

LR Disco1 ES 300Tdi currently at 250'000km first turbo, pump, engine never opened!!


All of them run with 1:200 ratio 2sO  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Very good

Accept it that with out hard fact there are people who won't be trying it

Personally I would rather pay for better diesel than arse around putting in 300ml of 2T for the benefit of somebody else, as if the engine won't last 3 to 4 years, I'll own the car than

But if your not swapping and running it in to the ground, fill ya boots, or tank 300ml at a time  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

OK, I will play ball and I will ask you to help me separate apples from peaches...

We have two aspects:
1. 2sO is good for burning process because it helps to keep a clean engine and prolongs the life of the oil.
2. Is it 2sO also good for lubricating high pressure parts of the common rail system? This is the issue here.

So, lets forget the first statement on which we all (or at least me) agree that it's true.

Lets focus on the second.
Suppose that we take the common rail system apart (tank, fuel lines, filter, HP pump, common rail, injectors, etc) and we will use it outside the engine. The injectors will spray diesel in a bucket for example.
And we make the system to work for thousand of hours, continuosly. No burning process will be involved. Just "injecting" diesel on a bucket.
So, do you have any proof that adding 2sO to the diesel fuel that will be used in this configuration (lets say it "no-burn-involved-bucket-injection-system" ) will protect the high pressure components better than using it without 2sO?

I understand from what you are saying that you add 2sO to diesel for keeping the engines clean _after_ combustion and not for lubricating reasons _before_ combustion, because you already have a rich sulphur fuel with good lubricating properties.
So you are using the 2sO for other reason than us in EU countries.
We are interested in the lubricating proprieties, not cleaning proprieties of 2sO.
Its ability in combination/emulsion with the diesel fuel to properly help protect the high pressure parts of common rail system.
Got the idea now?

Hi Alex

I read your posting very carefully and it is very obvious that we have to start from the very beginning (as in the sound of music )

So lets start with the basics.

Diesel is a fuel oil, i.e. it is meant to be used in compression ignition engines. The quality of diesel is determined by its cetane rating (the intensity and speed of burn), its sulphur content (lubricity) as well as the cleanliness of the diesel. It is advantageous to use a diesel fuel with the lowest sulphur content possible, due to the negative impact sulphur has on the motor oil. The higher the sulphur content in diesel, the quicker the ENGINE OIL!!! will turn to jelly with devastating consequences for valve train, bearings etc. In order to maximize the benefits of a ULSD diesel, extra lubricity has to be added to protect the injection and/or CRD components.

In Europe the quality of diesel is governed by DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm) parameters.

2-stroke oil is primarily a lubricant for two stroke engines. As such 2sO has to provide sufficient lubricity to guarantee adequate lubrication of (roller) bearings, sleeve and piston/piston ring contact areas etc. Furthermore 2sO must also burn clean and prevent piston scuffing and carbon deposit build up. All this has to be achieved within a mixing ratio of 50:1 with petrol.

BUT 2sO is also a fuel oil, which can be burnt in compression ignition engines. Due to its unique formulation to achieve the lubrication demands of a two stroke engine, this same lubrication properties can also be used for the diesel and CRD injection components to ensure proper and adequate lubrication.

The fact that 2sO in Jaso-FC quality also burns much cleaner (and faster) than diesel is an added benefit, that taxi drivers in Europe have used to their advantage for many decades now,.

Due to this clean and faster burning the efficieny of a diesel engine is improved while at the same time, the environmental impact of the diesel exhaust fumes is greatly diminished.

The carbon removing additives in the 2sO over time internally clean the diesel engine, so that there are no carbon residues present. It is a combination of these cleaning properties together with the increase in cetane rating that primarily will give the improvement in mpg.

I trust I have been able to adequately explain the basics of a topic that has been so hotly debated .....  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff