xtattsbox wrote:

The Laird wrote:

So, my situation is I'm driving at 70 mph (maybe in Cruise) and something jams and FL2 will not slow down. In a Manual I would select neutral (something I have done many times even without a problem).

I have never done it with an Automatic.

I still want to know if I should touch brake pedal to do it, or can I just slip it in Neutral without any consequences, other than:

a) no drive to wheels - that is what I wanted to achieve

b) no DSC and Anti Roll - I guess not but in situation I already have a prob

c) no engine braking - that's interesting; the engine is running (I haven't turned it off) so is that statement correct?

d) if c is correct, then will I have lost power steering?

Sorry, one question leads to many (but I don't want to be typing on here when it happens

A little fatalistic if nothing else!!

a) Correct
b) It will still be there, just not as effective
c) Engine braking is achieved by the drive of the car and the compression in the engine, so that will be gone
d) Nope, the power steeering has a separate pump.

e) You have a Landrover Freelander, not a Toyota!!!

Yes I know what I'm driving.

It is a hypothetical point and I'd rather think about it now.

Good to know about the Power Steering and all other points are clear except:

"c" - in this situation the engine is still revving at, say, 2000. So surely the engine has compression?

And, I still am no clearer on these points:

- do I have to touch the brake pedal to engage neutral, or just slip it in?

- are there any consequences at speed?

commando That's what I'm trying to find out 09 HSE Auto Lago Grey/Almond Napoli. Privacy glass.

alex_pescaru wrote:

The internal pump of the gearbox is driven by the input shaft. So the pressure (and lubrication) is dependant on engine RPM, not the position of the selector.
So as long as the engine is running, the gearbox is lubricated, no matter in which position is the selector.

OK, let me be more precise then - here's what I was told.

It's not advised to engage Neutral while driving. Gearbox pressure is applied depending on various conditions - the speed, engine RPMs, torque, gear level, throttle opening etc. Changing these will affect the pressure. Now imagine, that a car is speeding 70mph, and N is engaged. RPMs go down, but the wheels are still spinning fast. Will 800 RPMs be enough to provide proper pressure for lubrication and cooling of the transmission?

When in doubt, I prefer to stay safe and listen to my LR man.

Matthius wrote:

The Laird wrote:

c) no engine braking - that's interesting; the engine is running (I haven't turned it off) so is that statement correct?

d) if c is correct, then will I have lost power steering?

Sorry, one question leads to many (but I don't want to be typing on here when it happens

C) YES, no braking (the transmission will not apply the torque converter, if I'm correct)
D) NO, power steering will still work.

npinks wrote:

you loose power basically, i have done this a couple of times thinking i was in command shift

keep meaning to look in the manual for the official ruling on going from drive to neutral but haven't atm

Matthius wrote:

alex_pescaru wrote:

The internal pump of the gearbox is driven by the input shaft. So the pressure (and lubrication) is dependant on engine RPM, not the position of the selector.
So as long as the engine is running, the gearbox is lubricated, no matter in which position is the selector.

OK, let me be more precise then - here's what I was told.

It's not advised to engage Neutral while driving. Gearbox pressure is applied depending on various conditions - the speed, engine RPMs, torque, gear level, throttle opening etc. Changing these will affect the pressure. Now imagine, that a car is speeding 70mph, and N is engaged. RPMs go down, but the wheels are still spinning fast. Will 800 RPMs be enough to provide proper pressure for lubrication and cooling of the transmission?

When in doubt, I prefer to stay safe and listen to my LR man.

Thanks Matthius. Understood

But in my (hypothetical) case the accelerator/cruise control is stuck/malfunctioning so revs will still be around 2000 So engaging Neutral or driving into an undefiend object are the only two options. Where is the jettison fuel switch on a FL2

(You may have missed my point ... there is a worldwide crisis for Toyota about accelerators sticking and at least one death because the driver didn't kbnow how to react, i.e. engage Neutral. Now I know we drive the beatiful FL2 but I was thinking about how I would react to such an emergency.) 09 HSE Auto Lago Grey/Almond Napoli. Privacy glass.

Matthius wrote:

Will 800 RPMs be enough to provide proper pressure for lubrication and cooling of the transmission?

Matthius wrote:

When in doubt, I prefer to stay safe and listen to my LR man.

Me, I prefer to study, read more and to think logical for myself, than to trust a LR man.

The Laird wrote:

"the transmission will not apply the torque converter" ... is that controlled by engine revs or Neutral selection?

as i have said in the other thread i have slipped my car into neutral at 70mph when i thought i was in command shift, it went to neutral and back to drive without any bump or grinding noise ( the first time I did think O what do i do, but selected drive again anyway)

So my opinion is its safe to do so

You can also turn the engine off by holding the start stop switch whilst in drive, I have done this stationary when trying to work out why my car wont switch off and give me the keys, its due to the car been in drive, and me not putting it in to Park.

Doing this whilst driving, which i believe you still can, will loose power steering, full brake power etc

but usefull if trying to sneek home MI5 style and roll to a halt all quietly without your lights on  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

npinks wrote:

i have slipped my car into neutral at 70mph when i thought i was in command shift, it went to neutral and back to drive without any bump or grinding noise
So my opinion is its safe to do so

The Laird wrote:

But in my (hypothetical) case the accelerator/cruise control is stuck/malfunctioning so revs will still be around 2000 So engaging Neutral or driving into an undefiend object are the only two options. Where is the jettison fuel switch on a FL2

(You may have missed my point ... there is a worldwide crisis for Toyota about accelerators sticking and at least one death because the driver didn't kbnow how to react, i.e. engage Neutral. Now I know we drive the beatiful FL2 but I was thinking about how I would react to such an emergency.)

Yeah, I noticed that. I hope it'll remain a hypothetical situation for all of us. Should this happen though, the garbox protection will be definitely not the top of my 2do list.
I'd probably do what you suggested - engage N, and floor the brake.

alex_pescaru wrote:

Of course it will!
It is not an engine where should be high oil pressures for the bearings to handle forces that are generated by explosions inside burning chambers and neither the temperatures inside an engine.
The only thing that generates heat inside an auto gearbox is the torque converter. And when switched to N, the strain inside it is almost nulified. So no additional heat, no need for cooling.

alex_pescaru wrote:

npinks wrote:

i have slipped my car into neutral at 70mph when i thought i was in command shift, it went to neutral and back to drive without any bump or grinding noise
So my opinion is its safe to do so

Yes, it is safe.
All auto boxes from Aisin Warner has this option implemented in the firmware.
See: http://www.freel2.com/forum/post58962.html#58962

I see commndo opened another thread on this.

Thanks alex again. You do seem to know your stuff  09 HSE Auto Lago Grey/Almond Napoli. Privacy glass.

Matthius wrote:

Slightly off top - what's your opinion about changing the ATF earlier than what LR suggests?

Re how long in (D) Drive - I asked my local dealer's workshop controller the same question shortly after getting my first FL2 Auto. His response - you could leave your car ticking over in drive with the hand brake on and go to bed and the car would suffer no ill effects. A bit extreme??

I reckon its a question of balance - whats the worse wear issue - shifting in and out of drive to neutral versus leaving it in drive and warming up the ATF a bit. A bit of common sense perhaps based on traffic conditions, temperature of the day etc. I tend personally to shift into neutral if I think its going to exceeed a stop of 30 secs or more.

alex_pescaru wrote:

Any change before LR suggest (every 10 years) can't do any harm.

Alex -
I had a discussion with my brother recently. He works for Castrol (somewhere in QA dept), and was quite surprised when I quoted 150,000 km from FL2 manual. He said that the ATF they produce should not be used beyond 80,000 km, and he would recommend me to change it at least once every 2 years.
Won't harm to try.

alex_pescaru wrote:

PS: The option that says on Wikipedia that "One aspect of the advanced nature of the electronics is at idle, it automatically selects neutral gear to reduce internal temperatures and improves fuel economy." is disabled on FL2