Forum-Gallery-Shop-Sponsors

« Advertise on Freel2.com

Home > Technical > Car starting Intermittently
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 2 of 2 <12
Print this entire topic · 
BossBob



Member Since: 30 Sep 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 1401

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

The .54v difference between old battery and new battery wouldn’t be a problem with older cars without all the sensors and processors that modern cars contain.

Post #446689 21st Dec 2024 8:40 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3156

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

Are you sure that the Starter Motor is being energised, if so it must be a '12v Battery to Starter' poor connection. If not, it is in Start Procedure chain of actions. The forum has, on very rare occasions, had poor/damaged wiring/connector problems in the starter command chain. (They can be difficult to diagnose and repair)

Below is the Start Procedure from the Repair Manual, but I can't see anything that is obviously temperature related.

[i] PRINCIPLES OF OPERATION

Starting Process

The ECM will only allow engine crank, spark and injector functions when the following conditions are met:

A hardwired Park/Neutral signal is received from the Transmission Control Module (TCM)
A hardwired ignition signal is received from the CJB
A hardwired crank request signal is received from the CJB
Encrypted data exchange between the instrument cluster and the ECM is verified.

Before the CJB will send the hardwired ignition signal, it must satisfactorily complete the following:

Exchange encrypted data with the start control module to validate the remote handset.

Additionally, before the CJB will send the hardwired crank request signal it must receive the following signals:

Brake signal from the speed control inhibit switch
Hardwired transmission in Park (P) or Neutral (N) signal from the selector lever assembly.

With the remote handset inserted in the start control module and the stop/start button is pressed, the start control module issues battery voltage high signal on the LIN bus connection to the CJB and the fuel pump is run for 2 seconds to prime the fuel system. The CJB uses this signal together with the stop lamp switch signal and issues a crank request message on the high speed CAN bus to the ECM.

The ECM, on receipt of the crank request message, then provides a power and ground supply to the starter relay in the BJB, closing the relay contacts. Battery voltage is supplied via a fuse through the starter relay and is passed to the starter motor solenoid coil. The coil is energized, closing the solenoid contacts and allowing a fuse battery voltage supply direct from the battery to operate the starter motor and crank the engine and simultaneously switch the fuel pump on.

The ECM operates the starter motor until the engine starts which is determined by the engine speed exceeding a pre-determined value.

Auto Start

The ECM has an auto start function which allows the engine to continue cranking if the stop/start button is released. The starter motor will operate until the engine starts or a pre-determined period of time has elapsed which is based on engine coolant temperature. Low engine coolant temperatures allow longer crank times. If the engine does not rotate or the engine speed is low, the ECM removes the power supply and ground from the starter relay stopping the crank process.

Start Prevention

Operation of the starter motor will not be allowed or will be interrupted if:
the engine is running and the engine speed has exceeded a predetermined speed
the encrypted data exchange between the instrument cluster, ECM, CJB and start control module has failed to identify the remote handset
the gear selector lever is not in the park 'P' or neutral 'N' position. The signal is determined from a signal from the TCM and also the transmission mounted position switch the brake pedal is not pressed.[i]


Click image to enlarge
 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Last edited by IanMetro on 21st Dec 2024 7:36 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #446694 21st Dec 2024 5:42 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jenks1950



Member Since: 20 Apr 2013
Location: Stevenage
Posts: 260

England 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 XS Auto Santorini Black

This couldn't be the old dodgy solenoid contact problem could it??
You can repair the solenoid or replace the entire starter. It plagued me for years before it finally failed completely and was then easy to diagnose

My symptom was intermittent. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. You need to read the whole thread to get the full story Anyway, just a thought

Steve

https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic36248.html

Post #446695 21st Dec 2024 6:47 pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Badger51



Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Coffs Harbour
Posts: 967

Australia 

@jenks1950

We are talking about the i6 petrol engine here, which uses a totally different starter to the diesel. However, I appreciate that that doesn’t mean they can’t/won’t fail for the same reason.

From memory, I don’t remember other i6 owners complaining about the starter/solenoid, but of course there aren’t that many of them on the forum, when compared to diesel owners. (Now Sold). 2008 Freelander 2 (Nazca Sand) SE TD4 Auto. Statutory write off & on WOVR for hail damage but still road legal.
171037Km as of 09/05/22
Superchips Bluefin Flash
Nanocom Evo II (also sold)

Post #446697 22nd Dec 2024 7:27 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 5061

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

At the OP.

Sorry just realised were talking about a petrol i6.


You need to work logically to find the problem and eliminate parts found to be OK from the search.
I'd start with the starter motor and solenoid.

page 1076 onwards in the free JLR workshop manual - gives list of possible faults to work from.

Have you checked the condition of the starter motor connections - they need to be clean and all corrosion sanded off fthe copper contacting surfaces.

Have you tried energising the solenoid and starter directly with a jump lead from the battery positive terminal ? Jules

Post #446703 22nd Dec 2024 11:31 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 5061

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

Badger51 wrote:
@jenks1950

We are talking about the i6 petrol engine here, which uses a totally different starter to the diesel. However, I appreciate that that doesn’t mean they can’t/won’t fail for the same reason.

From memory, I don’t remember other i6 owners complaining about the starter/solenoid, but of course there aren’t that many of them on the forum, when compared to diesel owners.


I know little of the I6 but the starter is still uses a pre-engaging solenoid

"OVERVIEW
The starter motor rated at 1.4 kW uses permanent magnets instead of field windings to provide a low-weight starter
motor; with the use of planetary gears to deliver a good torque to weight ratio.
The starter relay is energized by a signal from the engine control module (ECM) when the ignition is in engine crank mode.
The ECM checks that a valid code has been received before granting the engine crank mode request. When the request is
granted the starter relay energizes the starter solenoid to engage the starter motor's pinion with the flexplate's ring gear.
Once the engine has started and engine speed exceeds starter motor speed the pinion disengages to prevent
over-cranking of the starter motor.
The electrical power for starter operation is supplied via a cable connected directly from the battery positive terminal to
the solenoid."
 Jules

Post #446704 22nd Dec 2024 11:38 am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Post Reply
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 2 of 2 <12
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
Freel2.com RSS Feed - All Forums


Switch to Mobile site