I'm once again sending out the bat signal for some more help and advice . Following on from my previous thread where the cars issue turned out to be a turbo actuator https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic40267.html . I have another issue to get my head around.

Symptoms:

When the car has been left overnight or just providing the car isn't at normal running temperature, it will start perfectly fine. When the car has been driven for a while and has got up to temperature, the next start it will do will be somewhat sluggish/lethargic and doesn't fill Alana and I with much faith that it will even start the next time it has to.

In all of the time we have owned the car, the car has always started very confidently and I think we both agree that this behaviour isn't normal for our car. So we know something isn't right/going wrong, we just don't know what .

Things To Possibly Rule Out:

In the 2 years we have owned the car, we haven't put a battery on it so we had no idea how old the battery was. So we have installed a new A6 Varta Silver Dynamic AGM 110 12V 80Ah 800A battery and told the car that it's had a new battery installed. That has taken it from barely starting the car when it's hot on the old battery into a level where it starts the car but as I say above, still seems lazy and lethargic to start.

With it being the TD4.e with the start stop on it. It already has the 2nd earth installed on it from the factory. While it could be a connection issue, I think we can rule out a lack of "earthage" issue.

I now have an Autel AP200 Bluetooth OBD2 adapter so can do more thorough scans and there are no codes stored for this issue.

When I was measuring the voltage via the OBD2 port, it was sitting at between 14.2V and 14.4V while the car was being driven. My gut is telling me from this that it isn't down to a lack of "juice" being put back into the battery and it being an alternator problem. Even if it was, wouldn't the issue show itself more on cold starts than hot starts?

My gut is also telling me it's not a starter motor issue because again, wouldn't that show itself under cold starts where it's under more stress than hot starts. Although I do cravat this by saying, could the starter motor get too hot from heat soak, therefore affecting it's starting performance?

Things We Will Be Trying/Need Help With:

I always like to try at the simple/free end of the scale and work my way up. So first off...

I noticed when going from Northamptonshire to Grantham, the car was sitting between high 80 degree C to sitting at 102 degrees C at points of the trip doing between 50 to 70 mph. I could be wrong but this seems a little high to us. One thing that's regularly talked about between people that take their Freelander 2's off road, especially through sloppy mud like we have is mud all dried up in the radiator. Potentially a lack of cooling due to dried up mud > Higher than normal temps > More heat soak which then affects starting?

Hopefully this weekend, Alana and I are going to take the wheel arch linings out and front bumper off and have a look/clean to see what the situation is there.

My 2nd idea and one that I require help with. I've done some searching on this issue and sometimes it's hard to work out if people are saying Td4 as in Freelander 1, or TD4 as in Freelander 2 . But anyway, there has been mention of the camshaft sensor can get hot which produces some kind of open circuit. Then when it cools, the circuit closes and the car goes back to normal. But this seems like it would provoke a not starting at all issue which we don't have, it's just sluggish? As you might be able to tell, I'm out of my depth talking about these things but I try my best .

Alana and I are going purchase some sensors, if not to fix this issue, but to have in the car for the future. But we need help in what sensors to buy...

- Camshaft Sensor LR016847 https://www.lrparts.net/lr016847.html

I'm guessing ignore the INTERMOTOR version at £13.05, ignore the OEM at £22.79 and buy the Land Rover version at a whopping £100.07? I know with some sensors, people say to buy none other than the Land Rover version and I'm guessing this is one of them? Obviously I want to try and avoid as much "green oval tax" as possible. So is there any other cheaper variant that can be trusted or even the same part but through Ford seeing as people say it's a Ford engine?

- Crankshaft Sensor LR000681 https://www.lrparts.net/lr000681-crankshaf...99999.html

With our VIN ending "AH18XXXX" and it being a 2010 car, I'm guessing that's the correct one? I know from another thread on here that there are 2 different types with different target wheels? Is this another sensor to ignore the aftermarket and OEM parts at £8 and £14.74 respectively and order the Land Rover version at a whopping £123.30? Yet again, any other trusted equivalent out there? Or another case of "you gets what you pays for"?

- Mass Air Flow Sensor MHK501040 https://www.lrparts.net/mhk501040-mass-air...ensor.html

Alana's "happy" to buy the other 2 sensors in the genuine Land Rover flavour if she has to, but this one she is struggling with and her first reaction is to go down the aftermarket or OEM route priced at £28.50 and £63.98. How important would you say it is to buy the genuine Land Rover version at £188.10?

Over to you now. I guess there is 2 parts to this thread. 1 being any help, tips, things to try to resolve our slow starting issue? 2, How important is it that those 3 sensors get ordered in the genuine Land Rover flavour seeing just how much of an increase there is on those prices ?

Thanks to anyone that can help .

Scott https://www.youtube.com/@scottandalana4x4

I swapped my crankshaft sensor out recently (was trying to rule out a vibration that turned out to be a poorly balanced tyre) on my 2010 (Pre-Facelift) TD4 Auto, and used this one: https://www.gsfcarparts.com/fac9-0458 - my car has been running fine on it for the past couple of months.

I believe Facet is supplied as OEM on certain BMW models, so it's a reasonable brand, and I've seen it mentioned on this forum somewhere before.

Takes about 5 minutes tops and I even did it without removing the wheel arch liner, just on ramps on my drive and removing the metal undertray - it's an easy swap to do to rule things out.

Your existing sensor could also just be covered in crap, and if you want a "free" thing to try, take the sensor off and give the entire thing a good clean with some contact cleaner, the outside and the contacts also. The MAF can be cleaned with contact cleaner too.

Also re the slow starting - on my Mrs' Leon with ~150k mi, there was a similar issue (cranking for a good 5 seconds before starting when hot, jumping alive immediately when cold), which turned out to be the starter on it's way out - the windings were getting warm and not performing as well as they were when cold, meaning the engine wasn't cranking fast enough.

Not sure if the issue is applicable to the start-stop LR motor though, I imagine it's a little different to a 2005 Leon

I fail to see how a crank position sensor would give a slow starter motor turnover.

Id check the starter motor +ve feed contact. I had a problem with intermittent poor starting on my old series 3 - it was simply corrosion on the connection - used emery until it was copper shiny - made a huge difference.
Similarly check the engine earths.
Maybe run an earth direct from starter motor casing to battery -ve to see that improves warm starting - a jump lead would do.


Starter motors draw a lot of current at a low voltage (12v), so increases in resistance (at connections) can make a big difference to starting but wont affect circuits/devices which draw little current. Jules

Thanks CDFH and Jules for getting back to me . The more I think about it, the more I'm not going to worry about the crank position sensor or mass air flow sensor for now as I feel like it's unlikely to be either of those.

My aim this weekend will be to remove the front bumper and wheel arch linings and give everything a good 'ol clean in there. Check/clean the earth's. Check/clean the connections on the starter motor as you have said Jules.

I'm going to order this camshaft position sensor: https://www.gsfcarparts.com/bos0986280413 No one seems to sell the Febi one that LR use, so I feel like Bosch should be a safe brand, right? My question to you all is how easy/hard are they to fit? On page 1250 in the manual available on this forum, it looks a bit of a nightmare having to remove turbo pipes, EGR pipe and bits in between. Is that really what's involved? Or does the manual go a little OTT and there is a much easier way of doing it?

Also, the manual states when fitting the sensor that it, I assume, has to touch the the camshaft wheel? How do you move the camshaft wheel if the engine has stopped in one of the gaps in the wheel where the sensor is? I ask these questions because the manual states, "failure to fit it properly will result in engine damage" which is an easy way for me to to work out if it's worth me and my hammer hands trying it, or giving it over to someone that actually knows what they are doing? https://www.youtube.com/@scottandalana4x4