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Kot

Member Since: 04 Apr 2023
Location: In the ~Garden
Posts: 83

2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

An EV comment

https://x.com/ampalsson/status/1783272509347110969

25th Apr 2024 9:56 am

Mowog

Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

Well, if all that is correct, it would appear that buying an electric car is the most anti social act one could perform…………….

25th Apr 2024 10:07 am

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

IanMetro wrote:
From what I read, EVs charge quickest and most efficiently between 10% and 80% of their capacity.

So the best answer for tea/comfort break, realistic charging time, range once away from home is within these figures.

So what you should be looking at if buying to meet your travel needs is;

Initial range from 100% Home charging, say to 10% charge left,

Then, time to charge (and additional range) 10% to 80%.

Looking at it this way, a quick coffee (+?), once or twice on a long journey, now and again, isn't worth worrying about.

Its that final last 20% (constant voltage) charging that takes forever.

That's absolutely correct for LMC batteries, LFP are slightly different, but along the same lines.
Charge speed is dictated by battery temperature (most new EVs have battery preconditioning) and current state of charge (SOC) of the battery pack.
Manufacturers quote charging times of 10 to 80% SOC because that's where the battery pack charge curve is most efficient, the last 20% of charge goes in much slower. There are some variables in battery pack design, but on the whole 10 to 80% gives the most energy for the time.

Most newer EVs will go from 10 to 80% in under 30 minutes, as long as the charger has enough power to stuff the energy in quickly. The Ionic 5 uses an 800V battery pack, so can fast charge from 10 to 80% in just 18 minutes, if a suitable charger is available. For many EV drivers, 18 minutes is actually too short, as it's hardly enough time to buy a coffee at a busy services, let alone have a wee and drink said coffee.

For maximum battery life, 80% SOC is considered the maximum charge for day to day use, with charging to 100% being used when maximum range is needed. However I've read many reports of minimal battery degradation by owners who only ever charge to 100%, so how accurate this 80% SOC is not set in stone, as it seems that newer battery packs are less susceptible to degradation than in the early days of the technology. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

25th Apr 2024 1:57 pm

Mowog

Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

Why is everyone obsessed with stopping for coffee ?

25th Apr 2024 2:05 pm

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

Mowog wrote:
Well, if all that is correct, it would appear that buying an electric car is the most anti social act one could perform…………….

Of that information is several years out of data, and all biased against EVs.

There isn't any cobalt in Tesla batteries made in China (most European Teslas are made in China) so they use LFP batteries.

The cobalt argument is moot anyway, as it's actually used in the processing of all fossil fuels. The fossil fuel industry uses much more cobalt than the EV battery manufacturing industry.
Cobalt is also used in every smartphone, laptop, vapes (including disposable vapes) and in anything else that needs a rechargeable battery.
Yes lots of mining takes place, but those materials will be mined anyway, as they're used in all the things listed above.

What is never mentioned is an EV battery can be 99% recycled after it's no longer useful in a car, but very little of those items listed above are recycled, they end up in land fill.

The anti-EV brigade only cherry picked the points that make EVs look bad, but then forget to mention the good things they do for the planet.

Did you know that the fossil fuel industry has done orders of magnitude more environmental damage than any other industry on the planet, yet not one drop of the fuel produced is recyclable.

In a perfect world all items manufactured should be recyclable, and recycled, so helping towards a circuit economy.

The fossil fuel industry don't want EVs, as their products won't be needed, so they're funding huge amount of rubbish about EVs. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

25th Apr 2024 2:20 pm

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

Mowog wrote:
Why is everyone obsessed with stopping for coffee ?

Because they like coffee, maybe?

There are plenty of people in motorway services that are drinking and eating, far more than will fit in the dozen EVs charging. Not everyone has to drive 455 miles in an afternoon.

We've got a 360 mile round trip to do on Saturday, which I'm not looking forward to doing, mostly because another £65 of diesel will go up in smoke.

Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Last edited by Nodge68 on 25th Apr 2024 2:36 pm. Edited 1 time in total

25th Apr 2024 2:24 pm

Mowog

Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

Well now I can breathe easy knowing what I quoted was lies.
I better start saving up for some electric car or other .

25th Apr 2024 2:25 pm

Mowog

Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

Nodge68 wrote:
Mowog wrote:
Why is everyone obsessed with stopping for coffee ?

Because they like coffee, maybe?

There are plenty of people in motorway services that are drinking and eating, far more than will fit in the dozen EVs charging. Not everyone has to drive 455 miles in an afternoon.
We're got a 360 mile round trip to do on Saturday, which I'm not looking forward to doing, mostly because another £65 of diesel will go up in smoke.

Have you thought how the electricity is produced for charging the car?
Can’t all be solar or wind power.

25th Apr 2024 2:31 pm

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

Mowog wrote:
Well now I can breathe easy knowing what I quoted was lies.
I better start saving up for some electric car or other .

I'm not blaming you for spreading lies, as there is a lot of one sided information in the mainstream. Unless lots of research is done, unbiased and accurate information is pretty hard to come by.

There is plenty of rubbish on the likes of YouTube, but also some really accurate and unbiased information as well. The trick is sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

25th Apr 2024 2:41 pm

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

Mowog wrote:
Nodge68 wrote:
Mowog wrote:
Why is everyone obsessed with stopping for coffee ?

Because they like coffee, maybe?

There are plenty of people in motorway services that are drinking and eating, far more than will fit in the dozen EVs charging. Not everyone has to drive 455 miles in an afternoon.
We're got a 360 mile round trip to do on Saturday, which I'm not looking forward to doing, mostly because another £65 of diesel will go up in smoke.

Have you thought how the electricity is produced for charging the car?
Can’t all be solar or wind power.

We do have solar, and so does Cornwall, plenty of the stuff, as well as wind turbines, lots of them.

The UK grid is now over 50% renewables, so it produces a lot less CO2 per kWhr now that a decade ago, and it's getting greener every year. Unfortunately the current administration is in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry, so the absolute minimum is being done to clean up electricity generation. Currently 200 grams of CO2 is produced for every kW of energy generated.
This means that an EV doing 4 miles to a kWhr of energy, produces under 50 grams of CO2 per mile driven when charged from the grid, or nothing if charged from a domestic solar installation. Compared to a petrol car producing anything from 100 to 500 grams per km, an EV is clean by comparison. Additionally an EV produces zero ultra fine particulates, which are toxic and pass through into the bloodstream of everyone who breathes them in. So people who live in cities where fossil fuel burning vehicles are allowed suffer from various health issues, related to breathing in this toxic filth.
It doesn't seem fair to me that I could be responsible for polluting someone else's air, just because I want to drive through where they live. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

25th Apr 2024 2:59 pm

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

For those that worry that EV batteries fail should watch this.
?si=jkXK1tyPWN4xj7fT Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

25th Apr 2024 4:01 pm

Just a driver

Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 416

2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

It would not matter how long the battery lasts, if our freelander can not be fixed we would be hunting around for may be an estate car of some sort. Deciding factor money, price, road tax costs etc, so a battery car would not even come in to the equation.

25th Apr 2024 4:13 pm

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

MG5 estate (a favourite of taxi drivers) would possibly cover those requirements. Can be found for £10k second hand, plenty of space, very cheap to run, and completely free RFL.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2...mp;fromsra Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Last edited by Nodge68 on 26th Apr 2024 7:22 am. Edited 1 time in total

26th Apr 2024 6:47 am

Mowog

Member Since: 11 Apr 2018
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 503

Well one of my neighbours has an MG ev
He says it’s the worst thing he ever did to buy it.
He had a 3 yr old S class Merc diesel and wanted to go to cheap ev.

He is the guy with the nightmare travelling to Southampton from Chester.

He cant sell it without incurring a big loss, bigger than normally expected.

If it costs me £60 to do 450 miles on petrol then I am happy.

I can’t do anything meaningful about climate change unless India, China and the rest help as well.

26th Apr 2024 7:00 am

Nodge68

Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2080

It's true that EVs won't work for everyone, at least not yet.
However if one does work, then the advantages outweigh the pitfalls. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

26th Apr 2024 7:27 am

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