Tesla are silly expensive to insure. Apparently it's not unusual for a new Tesla to be crashed in a couple of weeks of purchase. It seems some new Tesla owners don't realise just how fast they are, and clearly can't handle driving at warp speed. The insurance for most Tesla models is group 50, which explains why owners struggle with insurance. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

TBH who can afford an EV that is equivalent to Freelander 2 (is there such a car?) with interest rates, energy costs, cost of food?
If you wish to buy a EV (which by the way may not give a good range if towing) or lease then is it something like 77k miles before it becomes environmentally neutral. By this time (about 7 yrs) you may be considering replacement batteries.
Therefore, if you change your car every 3 yrs then on each new car you will never break even with it so how good is that????
I know, im a fossil or equivalent for suggesting anything negative about driving a battery but there you go

This 77k until it's environmentally neutral myth has been proven to be massively incorrect. It does depend on vehicle model, and where the energy to charge an EV comes from. Some actual scientists have crunched the numbers on this, and it seems that EVs charging on the UK grid are carbon neutral from about 12k miles to about 35k miles, after which time an EV becomes much less polluting than an ICE equivalent.

Price is still high though, although EVs are loosing money at about the same rate as an ICE vehicle, so after 3 years they are more affordable. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

I wonder what the insurance situation would be on a CAT D write off EV? 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

To be fair 99% of people running around in a 14 or 15 year old freelander or any other make are not going to be able to afford an ev car , and being worried about it’s environmental impact would not even register on their radar. It’s simply a car to get around in or do a job.

I must be in the 1%

Keeping an older car running well is in itself environmentally friendly - making new vehicles generates huge amounts of pollution. Jules

Same wheel house as me Jules. I would rather fix, repair and keep going than change as regularly as some people change their pants.

In the time I have had Miffy (2002/3 Defender) some people will have had upwards of 7 vehicles in that same time. The environmental cost of creating (possibly disposing of) 7 new vehicles far exceeds the continued use of this old girl.

The same goes for Phoebe, although she is 6 years younger.

Not denying people who have money choose to run old motors. Truck drivers away all week , or people who work away and leave an old car at the airport just to get to and from home . As long as it goes backwards and forwards and stops it’s all they need , and doesn’t matter if it’s banged into etc while they are away. It’s just a convenience to get home at any time they return and not have to wait etc. just saying an awful lot of other people will never be in the market for an ev due to the cost.

"just saying an awful lot of other people will never be in the market for an EV due to the cost."

Agree with that. Car rental is the way it will go I think. I think cheap cars are becoming a thing of the past as manufacturers find they can make much more profit by selling expensive cars.

Read an article by a motoring journo recently discussing the pros and cons of taking a loaned EV SUV to south of France for a family holiday.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electr...c-car.html

It all worked out OK as the family liked the frequent stops for recharging and he calculated that it cost about the same as an ICE to get there and back, bearing in mind he was using public charging points which are much more expensive.

But if you can afford £123K on a car do you really care about fuel costs. Jules

I read that article over the weekend on mail on line - maybe just me but the stress ometer in my brain would have been in overdrive. Driving from A to B with a planned fueling itinerary hoping that the charging point are working and/or are free wouldn't set me up for a relaxing holiday.
And yes Jules is right - fuel costs are not really a consideration hence we all drive Freelanders. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Just a driver wrote:

To be fair 99% of people running around in a 14 or 15 year old freelander or any other make are not going to be able to afford an ev car , and being worried about it’s environmental impact would not even register on their radar. It’s simply a car to get around in or do a job.

I’ve just purchased a used BMW i3 to replace an outlander PHEV, obviously very different types of vehicle but here is my comparison of EV vs ICE ownership.

The i3 cost 3k more to purchase than what I got selling the Outlander private and any comparable ICE replacement would have cost similar to the i3, maybe a touch less but to get similar tech and spec I don’t think there would be much in it.

EV Pros -

The i3 is much cheaper to run. It does 100/130 miles for £2 when charged at home, at night, on a cheap electricity rate and £9 outside of the cheap tariff. If charging out at public charging it is of similar cost to using diesel/petrol.
Not had a problem yet charging in public, if a charger doesn’t work or is occupied there will be another one not far away.
Whole house gets cheap electric at night due to EV elec tariff.
Wife can charge at work for free, this won’t last forever.
Costs similar at BMW main dealer to maintain as me doing the service myself on the Freely or Outlander as it is every 2 years and requires very little maintenance.
It is road tax exempt vs nearly £400 for the Freely, Outlander was also tax exempt.
Has a very modern interior with modern technology.
Drives really well, is fast with instant power, has great braking and good handling.
Very quiet to drive.
Has warranty including battery, although battery shows very little degradation after 6 years and 50k miles.
It is a much better driving experience than ICE.
Able to precondition cabin so it is never cold or hot to get into.
Still looks modern.
Wife loves it.

EV Cons-

Had to pay nearly 1k for a charger to be installed at home as there are no grants anymore. I will need to charge the car around 100 times at home before the charger has paid for itself.
Has a real world mileage of around 175 miles per charge including the range extender engine.
Looks like tyres will not last as long as an ICE but not confirmed.
May have to go to BMW for any serious repairs?
Insurance rose from £300 to £600. May just be the i3 that is expensive to insure due to its carbon fibre body and frame.
Have to plan more when travelling far to see family as we can only get one way on a charge. Not been a problem though as in 30 mins max the battery is full on a DC high output charger. Also not had a problem charging in public.
I bought the range extender model that has a scooter engine used as a generator due to range anxiety. Now that I own one I could have managed easily with a pure EV model.

I don’t think EV is the answer but it is the stop gap. Like it or not manufacturers have spent a lot of money on the technology and bringing EV’s to the market place, they are not going to be left out of pocket and will be pushing them hard on finance/lease soon. They will possibly be the only option if buying new soon.
Petrol/diesel isn’t going to last forever and the price is only going to go one way.

My Freely will be kept until something major fails and it will probably be replaced with an EV, probably on lease or finance as I won’t have the capital to buy a new car outright. If money was no object I would still probably buy an EV over ICE equivalent.

Don’t get carried away with all the internet EV rumours, I hear so much rubbish from people about EV’s, most of it simply isn’t true. Until you try it for yourself you will never know for sure. I like EV driving and if it is financially viable for you buy one.

Ev are that there is no doubt, but people will decide if and when on price not the environment. When people phone up for goods to buy etc they only ever ask how much, nothing what so ever about the environment.

tenet wrote:

- maybe just me but the stress ometer in my brain would have been in overdrive.

Not just you - my better half gets irritated if I have to pull off the M6 for a quick pee (its a prostate thing), on our trips up to the Dales. GOK what she'd be like if we had to wait for a recharge every couple of hours.  Jules

I think most drivers have a "bladder range", mine has reduced to about 3 hours over the years. Most newer EVs will complete a 3 hour run without a stop, so for me it's not going to be an issue. What Car did a run from West London to Lands End and back in a Tesla M3 and MG4, both cars having an official range of over 300 miles. The MG4 driver didn't make the smartest of charging stops, and it does show that although the MG4 is some £5000 cheaper to buy, the Tesla Supercharger network does have the edge on both availability and price compared to normal public fast chargers.
While the drivers concluded that the Tesla was the winner in this comparison, they didn't compare maintenance costs and insurance costs, of which both are considerably more expensive than the MG4.

I'm not going to be getting an EV based on it's green credentials, but on it's performance and cost compared to an ICE alternative. I think that's the best balanced position to take.

One thing I'll miss when I finally finish with my Freelander 2 is the driving position, it's high, comfortable and visibility is second only to an open top car, and it'll do over 700 miles to a full tank.
The Freelander will be a tough act to follow, but I guess it's just what we get used to in the end. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.