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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3156

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White
EV Fire Risks

This is quite a good balanced article from a reliable source about EV Fire Risks.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/how-mu...&ei=31 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #436247 11th Oct 2023 6:52 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2082

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

Having looked at the video on a larger screen, I agree, the vehicle wasn't parked in a bay, so was probably being driven when it caught alight. The flames are definitely at the front around the bulkhead area, which is where an ICE vehicle with an engine fire starts to show flames first.
A BEV fire starts under the vehicle, often with jets of flames and gasses coming out from below the floor.
A hybrid RR battery is located under the boot floor, which isn't where this fire starts at all. I would conclude that the vehicle possibly had a fuel leak, which ignited on the hot exhaust. The result is what happened here. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #436248 11th Oct 2023 7:07 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2082

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red
Re: EV Fire Risks

IanMetro wrote:
This is quite a good balanced article from a reliable source about EV Fire Risks.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/how-mu...&ei=31

This is a fairly balanced article, however it only concentrated on NMC (nickel manganese cobalt) lithium batteries.

There is a much safer chemistry which many manufacturers are switching too called lithium iron phosphate or LifePO4, often referred to as LFP by manufacturers.
LFP lithium batteries don't contain cobalt for a start, which is one of the main reasons that anti-EV people say EVs are bad, as the cobalt is minded by children in poor countries. The fact that the fossil fuel industry also uses cobalt to remove sulfur from the oil seems to be forgotten in this statement.
So LFP batteries don't contain cobalt (no child labour issues), but they also don't contain a flammable electrolyte. The organic electrolyte used in NMC is basically alcohol, which burns with an almost invisible and extremely high temperature flame, which is where lots of the energy comes from to start a chemical reaction within the cells. It's this chemical reaction that produces oxygen and hydrogen, giving the self-sustaining burn until the fuel is gone, or sufficient heat can be removed to stop the chemical reaction taking place.

LFP don't have these issues, as the electrolyte isn't flammable, it's a type of brine or salty water (the actual chemical composition varies depending on the manufacturer), which doesn't burn, even if the battery is actually in a fire. All that happens when an LFP battery is damaged, is it'll warm up due to short circuit inside the cells, which produces steam that escapes from a special safety vent in the cells themselves. The escape of steam (and chemicals) takes heat away with it, cooling a damaged cell and eliminating the chance of thermal runaway almost to nothing. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #436249 11th Oct 2023 7:39 pm
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3156

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

Thanks Nodge for the reassurance that safer EVs are on the way.
Can you say which manufacturers will change to these safer batteries and when can we see them in cars.
Also, which type of battery these new British based Gigifactories will make. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #436253 12th Oct 2023 8:32 am
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SYFL2



Member Since: 16 Jun 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2597

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

I’m getting irritated about the choice of words the news are using I heard yesterday the fire was started by a lithium battery in a diesel car,that’s an EV and it wasn’t the diesel that spontaneously combusted it was the battery. Few weeks ago when those migrants were put on the barge Sky News woman said the migrants have started arriving on lorries. I turned over to another channel and they had film of them arriving in luxury air conditioned coaches with a big TV in the front.

Post #436254 12th Oct 2023 8:46 am
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BossBob



Member Since: 30 Sep 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 1402

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

Click image to enlarge

If it was a lithium battery in a diesel car it was an MHEV (Mild Hybrid EV). In other words a diesel car with battery assist. The pictures that I saw of the car in flames tie in with that as the hot spot seemed to be under the nearside front seat which is where the battery is sited on the JLR MHEV platform. It looked like a Range Rover Discovery as the rear lights were incorrect for the New Evoque which has MHEV.
Battery assist is supposed to help moving off from standstill and the battery is charged through regenerative braking.

Post #436256 12th Oct 2023 9:04 am
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SYFL2



Member Since: 16 Jun 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2597

2007 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

I wonder how long before public car parks ban them or home insurance is void if you park one in your garage and the house goes up ?

Post #436258 12th Oct 2023 9:59 am
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BossBob



Member Since: 30 Sep 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 1402

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

There are more problems with cheap and possibly poorly maintained batteries in scooters and electric bikes that are taken indoors, even into blocks of flats and charged in access ways. There have already been deaths as a result of the fires caused.

Post #436259 12th Oct 2023 10:22 am
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Just a driver



Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 428

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

There will be problems etc with electric cars and there’s going to be people and media going on about etc etc. Then when they lower the prices it will all be forgotten, goes on all the time with products and buisness. Money soon alters people’s views.

Post #436269 13th Oct 2023 1:17 pm
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tenet



Member Since: 23 Jul 2009
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1081

United Kingdom 2015 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey

Came across this video:
&ab_channel=GeoffBuysCars

and this one:
&ab_channel=AutoExpertJohnCadogan MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

Post #436270 13th Oct 2023 2:21 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 5062

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

The Luton edition RR - two tone - orange with charcoal grey on top - goes like a rocket apparently Rolling with laughter Jules

Post #436271 13th Oct 2023 6:15 pm
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Dave47



Member Since: 31 Aug 2014
Location: Margate Kent
Posts: 1333

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Izmir Blue

I see on the news this week, some insurance companies
are refusing to insure EVs owing to the high cost of repair. Rolling Eyes DAVE.

Post #436272 13th Oct 2023 7:11 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2082

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

I know several people at work with EVs, and all have no issues with insurance. However a friend of mine has a Tesla as a company car, which apparently is very expensive or impossible to insure as in individual. It's Tesla that have limited parts supply, and won't allow anyone but Tesla approved repairers to work on them, which is why the repair costs are so high. I've heard a rumour that Tesla deliberately over quote the repairs, so the insurance writes the vehicle off instead, meaning Tesla sell another new one as a replacement. It might be just hearsay, but it does sound plausible to me, especially when I've seen Tesla quote over £20,000 for a replacement battery, which according to Tesla's own figures cost just $130 per kWhr of capacity to manufacture. The figures just don't work when a comparison is made between production cost and parts supply costs, so someone is either making vast profits, or the production cost of the battery is more than Tesla claim it is. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #436277 13th Oct 2023 11:49 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 5062

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

Or both Jules

Post #436280 14th Oct 2023 7:28 am
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BossBob



Member Since: 30 Sep 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 1402

England 2007 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Manual Baltic Blue

So that’s how Musk gets to afford to indiscriminately pollute our night sky with his fecking satellites!

Post #436282 14th Oct 2023 8:22 am
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