Nodge68 wrote:

I'd love to be in the position to own an EV, but unfortunately I'll have to wait until they're affordable, which will be some time yet.

Buy a classic car

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/a...harge.html

The supercharged RR is less than £4K and will probably keep you busy for hours  Jules

Worth watching, a realistic look at what you can expect from a larger EV.

 2007 TD4 XS The work horse that earns its up keep
2013 SD4 HSE The posh one for towing the caravan
1973 Triumph Stag I bought in 2009 and restored.

Great video.

Those people who believe that they are saving the planet owning/leasing an EV have your heads up a dark and smelly place

Milothedog wrote:

Worth watching, a realistic look at what you can expect from a larger EV.

That's a rather biased video, some of it isn't particularly factual.

Cobalt is used in current batteries, but more and more manufacturers are switching over to LFP batteries, which contains zero Cobalt, zero Manganese and zero Nickel. It makes sense for manufacturers to use less damaging and easy to obtain elements, as these cost less.
What is never published is the oil industry also uses vast amounts of Cobalt as part of the refining process, so the cobalt argument is rather moot.
Lithium doesn't have to be mined. It can be extracted from underground as a brine, which is then dried in vast lakes ready for use. Australia is the world's largest producer of Lithium, in areas where nobody lives, so the local population aren't really inconvenienced.
Nickel is used the world over in the electronics, and metals industry, so EVs can't be singled out for use, and as I've said LFP batteries don't use it anyway.

It's also less environmentally damaging to extract all these elements than it is to extract oil from the ground, sea or wherever else the oil industry can find the stuff.

Oh and 95% of all the elements in a vehicle battery can be recycled or reused in other less demanding applications, which is much better than any fossil fuel. How much diesel or petrol can be recycled? None.

There are some truths though in the video though. EVs aren't as efficient as the manufacturers claim, but that's down to the tests used, not the vehicles themselves.
It's accurate that an EV isn't as good as an ICE vehicle at motorway speeds, but you also have to compare apples to apples.

The chap who's story was in the video had a Volvo C40 recharge, which kept being compared to older diesel vehicles that have less emissions equipment and so better MPG of 55 as quoted. If you compared a C40 Recharge to the petrol equivalent at motorway speeds, suddenly you're down to 38 MPG, and a lot less round town. It's well known that an EV isn't so good at motorway sleeds, as wind resistance kills efficiency, and there's little regen taking place, but round town an EV is miles ahead in terms of efficiency over a petrol equivalent.

Unfortunately relying on public charging isn't the cheapest way to top up, home charging being the lowest cost by a huge margin.

An EV can work for most people most of the time, and are definitely cheaper to run if home charging is used.
However at the moment, long drives and public charging do make for a more expensive journey, when compared to equivalent petrol or diesel vehicles of a similar type. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

One also needs to factor in the cost of a home charger at circa £800 including installation. This on top of the current premium to purchase a EV. I live near Stroud and make a few journeys each year to my daughter in Cornwall along with a trip or 2 to my sister in Surrey plus my annual pilgramage to Thurso salmon fishing. It just would not work for me.
A consideration would be buying a runaround as a 2nd car but again costs north of £25k make this prohibitive. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

I do wonder how people ever coped with the notion of driving around atop a barrel of flammable liquid.

It's easy to sift through the edge cases and rare scenarios and go "ah, here's the *actual* reason I couldn't possibly do x / y / z"

Reality is, people seek comfort in doing the same old thing until it gets wrenched away by legislation or market forces, and justify that emotional inertia any way they can. Because apparently, just admitting you don't like change is a weakness? Current driveway contents:
2021 V60 Cross Country B5
2009 FL2 dog bus and shooting wagon

On Order: 2023 Fisker Ocean Ultra - deposit paid.

I've read quite a few similar stories (without the overkill on the propaganda) about the 'real world' difficulties and cost of PUBLIC charging.
My view is that, at the moment, EVs work well if your main use is in highly trafficked built up areas, but Diesels work better if you live outside the cities and regularly drive 100+ miles in a day.

Increasing EV range comes at the expense of the cost, weight, and size of the vehicle.

To me, as a pensioner (i.e. normal taxpayer) cutting business tax or VAT is of no help in paying the EV 'premium' that covers the cost of the battery.

Alarmingly I read recently of JLR Dealer wanting £20,000 to replace a RRS PHEV battery, it seems that a 3rd party repairer
did the job for about £6-8k by removing the battery and getting it sent to Cyprus for repair.

https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/range-...ed.349387/

We are now beginning to get adverts for 3rd party battery specialist, which may allow EVs to last longer.

https://www.servomotorsadjust.com/en/range...ry-repair/ FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

We may have been driving with tanks of inflammable liquid but high powered batteries have their own problems including fire and the chance of electrocution after an accident, ever wondered why F1 drivers jump out of their cars after a crash with both feet instead of a step jump. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

At least F1 cars run in a closed environment with marshals that have been trained to deal with the dangers that batteries bring with them. I’m afraid I’d have second thoughts about going to the aid of someone who’d been involved in an incident in an EV or hybrid.

You'd probably struggle to have first thoughts with that approach to life.  Current driveway contents:
2021 V60 Cross Country B5
2009 FL2 dog bus and shooting wagon

On Order: 2023 Fisker Ocean Ultra - deposit paid.

BossBob wrote:

At least F1 cars run in a closed environment with marshals that have been trained to deal with the dangers that batteries bring with them. I’m afraid I’d have second thoughts about going to the aid of someone who’d been involved in an incident in an EV or hybrid.

So running to help someone after an incident with 10 gallons of petrol in the vehicle tank is less risky than running to help someone in an EV? That's bonkers. The battery in an EV is much better protected than the fuel tank in an ICE vehicle.
And the chances of electrocution from an EV is nil. You've more chance being electrocuted changing a light bulb. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Run ! The only thing I could run is a bath. It would just be 999.

IanMetro wrote:

I've read quite a few similar stories (without the overkill on the propaganda) about the 'real world' difficulties and cost of PUBLIC charging.
My view is that, at the moment, EVs work well if your main use is in highly trafficked built up areas, but Diesels work better if you live outside the cities and regularly drive 100+ miles in a day.

Increasing EV range comes at the expense of the cost, weight, and size of the vehicle.

To me, as a pensioner (i.e. normal taxpayer) cutting business tax or VAT is of no help in paying the EV 'premium' that covers the cost of the battery.
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