Unfortunately Elon is Tesla's worst enemy. The value of Tesla has dropped massively since he bought Twitter.
This has effected Tesla vehicle sales, which has been compounded by the current economic climate. Tesla have 1,000s of unsold vehicles in stock, which is costing the company money, so they needed to shift them to claw back some capital, and the only way to do this was to trop the price.

This will have a knock on effect across the EV industry, which I think is a good thing, as the prices of them should start to fall, particularly on the second hand market. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

IanMetro wrote:

Nice to hear someone is enjoying one of the best EVs and it JLR.

I would be interested to know how the insurance on the I-Pace compares with that of the FL2, by a real owner, in real pounds.

It know it is very nice to drive, but I was worried that it's impressive turn of speed, combined with its list price, may take it out of my reach.

insurance raised maybe 15% on the change from disco sport to ipace, nothing shocking At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Nodge68 wrote:

Unfortunately Elon is Tesla's worst enemy. The value of Tesla has dropped massively since he bought Twitter.
This has effected Tesla vehicle sales, which has been compounded by the current economic climate. Tesla have 1,000s of unsold vehicles in stock, which is costing the company money, so they needed to shift them to claw back some capital, and the only way to do this was to trop the price.

This will have a knock on effect across the EV industry, which I think is a good thing, as the prices of them should start to fall, particularly on the second hand market.

I am hoping that the 'Covid' Premium on prices works through the system and car production, delivery, and pricing returns to normal for all vehicles.

As seen with Tesla's sudden (about £5k) un-announced price drop there has been a bit of hidden profit making during the pandemic. Perhaps in the near future car buying will return to a more normal experience.

And unfortunately the early adoption of EVs has become an ideology, and what should have been a steady evolution from ICE to EV, has become a fight between the two dogmas of old and new.

I have been a 'would -be' buyer of the new technology ever since I expressed interest in the first Peugeot 3008 Hybrid back in 2012. They sent factory engineers out to demonstrate the vehicles, and they were a bit more forthcoming than the salesmen.
My engineer/demonstrator advised me that without the business tax advantage, the HEV could not compete against the normal car.

I just wish that the Government had spent all the money' given away as tax incentives, on building up a national charging infrastructure, and also subsidising a few EV Battery and Car Factories on British Soil. The way we are going is we will be left with (mainly business bought) foreign produced EV cars, and ALL others banned.

The way things are at the moment, EV cars do not make economic sense for me to buy, even though I have liked the ones I have driven. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Glad there are always different opinions..EVs Vs ICE!
As to who is right is another matter (people cant even decide on faith/god so EVs definitely will never be everybody's choice).

What people seem to do is only think of themselves and their situation but my consideration is also for those who are not as fortunate especially with regards to costs as EVs may be beyond their financial scope. So issues such as purchase/maintaining vehicle/cost of charging/tyre cost/insurance all play their part.
Therefore being able to own a cheap car is the only way forward!

Also they are not the solution to greener future and we should not be brainwashed to think they are

"Most of what you've said is fossilganda".....is this a neologism? (not the version as used in psychiatry, that would suggest illness)

I'd love to be in the position to own an EV, but unfortunately I'll have to wait until they're affordable, which will be some time yet.
I quite like the look of the MG 4 or Cupra Born, the latter being some £6k more expensive when new, for no real gains except for the name. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Nodge said
I'd love to be in the position to own an EV, but unfortunately I'll have to wait until they're affordable, which will be some time yet.

I think that just about sums it up for most non-business motorists! --- can't agree more. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

We bought an eMini late last year, a business purchase, to replace a privately owned Disco Sport
The wife will.use it mainly, school run, nipping around, going to shops etc. Ideal for a small EV. We are fortunate enough to also have other larger vehicles to choose from should we need 7 seats, towing capacity, longer range etc

£34,500 List price Inc VAT

We get the VAT back
The wife and I are both self employed within the business, so.comes off pur tax bill (estimated to be around £7k saving each )
The privately owned DS was sold, and we made an overpayment to our mortgage, saving nearly 3 years of payments and £10k in interest ( )
Then we don't have to pay road tax until 2025, so another £750 in savings for 3 years
Then fuel cost. The DS was doing 6k a year @ 28mpg, give or take £1500 per year in fuel (though it seemed a whole lot more) which is around 25p per mile

Even at todays energy prices, we can charge to 100% overnight for around £8, which gets us anywhere between 75-100 miles. Worst case, around 11p per mile, or £660 annually

All that into consideration, over 3 years, the Mini will have "cost" us, personally, only £1250, but doesn't include servicing/tyres/wear+tear etc. Neither does it account for when we sell it on

Had to argue with the man maths

BUT...

We wouldn't have bought it privately. It only made sense as a business purchase

AT1963 wrote:

Glad there are always different opinions..EVs Vs ICE!

Mikey wrote:

Even at todays energy prices, we can charge to 100% overnight for around £8, which gets us anywhere between 75-100 miles. Worst case, around 11p per mile, or £660 annually

'Elon Musk has made me embarrassed to drive my Tesla now'

"I wondered if people were making a judgement about me that I wasn't looking for."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64376727


FFS, Get a life. I mean everyone who drives a black Range Rover is a drug dealer or pimp, right ? Jules

jules wrote:

Mikey wrote:

Even at todays energy prices, we can charge to 100% overnight for around £8, which gets us anywhere between 75-100 miles. Worst case, around 11p per mile, or £660 annually

Interesting , for the same 6000 miles our Fiesta ST would cost about £900 in petrol. So there is not a lot in it.

But clearly the Mini EV makes a lot of sense for you for all the other reasons.

I was going to ask about insurance but there are too many variables; age, convictions, previous claims, location etc

Currently, in winter it's 11p per mile. When temperatures are warmer, and we don't use the cabin pre heat function, its down to around 7p per mile.

If/when electricity comes back down in price, it'll be cheaper still

But again, it doesn't warrant spending £34k to save a few hundred quid in fuel every year...

Insurance, can't answer. Trade policy covers everything

Fuel savings were pretty huge for us and the justification for getting the tesla but it does a lot of miles at the time of purchase my wife did 20k a year commuting this used to cost 3.5k a year just in diesel and that was before the prices went up
Until very recently all charging at home came in at 5.5p/kwh and worked out about 1.5-2p a Mile any supercharging is free for us too
When we first went on an EV tarrif we load shifts as much as we could to the cheap rate dishwasher washing machine etc and effectively it only added £20 a month to the electric bill
The car has never needed any services I did take it to cleevley EV for a service for peice of mind but other than a cabin filter it was purely an inspection it cost just over £100
Tyres last twice as long as they did on the astra diesel that it replaced
So all I'm all we seem to have swapped running costs for depreciation
Now the astra needed swapping anyway and it wad probably going to be a golf diesel to replace it if we had stayed ice
At the time a nice couple of year old low mileage example was £20k the tesla was £43k at 2 years old
Not sure on the current value of the tesla but £25k should be about right
A 16 plate golf is now about 10k with similar miles
So realistically it's cost 8k and saved more than that in diesel

So even without the company car tax incentives then they are still worth it if you do big miles

My new tarrif that I have just switched to is now 10p/kwh off peak so costs have roughly doubled but I can cope with 4p a mile still
The wife has a new job now for the same outfit but now uses her own car for business miles she roughly gets 5k a year tax free for this now so that's all going in a savings account to buy the next car when this one has had it

A very interesting take on EVs by Harry Metcalf

I'm going to hold off on buying an EV and stick to my good old diesel Freelander! -------------------------------------------------------------
1965 Series IIa Safari LWB White - gone
1982 RR 2 door Sahara dust - gone
2000 Freelander 1 3 door white gold - gone
1995 Discovery 1 200Tdi Biaritz Blue - gone
2009 FL2 TD4 HSE Stornoway Grey

YOU MUST WATCH THIS VIDEO

This is the best, logical, balanced description of the present state of EVs I have seen.

I found that, the more I watched it, the more I agreed with the presenters views and conclusions. It was very well researched and came to some very thought provoking ideas.

Thanks Oldseadog for posting it.

[/b] FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)