EVs aren't optimised for towing 160 miles each way without compromising on range/charging (Jules' requirement)

But then neither are ICE vehicles. Range suffers regardless of means of propulsion when towing. Where EVs will suffer is when your total trip exceeds your range and you then need to recharge mid-journey with a trailer.

I regularly tow with my Freelander, but typically less than 8-10 miles each way. My planned EV purchase will include a tow pack and will be fine for this. Personally not a caravan user, but I can see a lengthy caravan holiday with an EV being a challenge.

I'll not be to the one to reopen the past Freel2 shed tugger wars....

There are an estimated 550,000 caravans in the UK - 1 for every 60 cars. If you are part of the 1.66% of car owners with a caravan, then probably an EV is not for you right now. But then again, it might depend on how often you use the caravan? Not really sure I "get" the idea of letting 1 or 2 weekends a year dictate the type of vehicle I use for the remaining 361 days of the year, but then there are those that use their caravans a heck of a lot more than that.

It's ok to say "I don't want an EV" without trying to justify it. Current driveway contents:
2021 V60 Cross Country B5
2009 FL2 dog bus and shooting wagon

On Order: 2023 Fisker Ocean Ultra - deposit paid.

I had a look at NoDosh's next EV car, it's quite immpressive.

This is the Website, and has lots of facts. The the video included in it is worth a look (beware the presenter is a little over the top but he does calm down gradually) - and ignore the advert just a few minutes into the video.

https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1710/Fisker-Ocean-Ultra FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

In the early days of ICE cars there were few petrol stations in rural areas and so drivers took extra cans of petrol along with them and that is still true today in many parts of the world - your life could depend upon it.

But I was thinking about all this "range anxiety" and wondered if you kept a small petrol generator and 20L of petrol in the boot would that be enough to charge one's BEV and get them back to a charging station ? The additional weight would be almost insignificant compared to that of most BEVs.
It would take a few hours to charge but at least you knew you were going to get going again. Jules

That reminds me of my dear old Nan who many years ago heard my Dad say that he wasn’t sure if we’d have enough gas in the cylinder in the motor caravan to see us through our week in Dorset. “Couldn’t you take some more in an old lemonade bottle?” she suggested

jules wrote:

In the early days of ICE cars there were few petrol stations in rural areas and so drivers took extra cans of petrol along with them and that is still true today in many parts of the world - your life could depend upon it.

But I was thinking about all this "range anxiety" and wondered if you kept a small petrol generator and 20L of petrol in the boot would that be enough to charge one's BEV and get them back to a charging station ? The additional weight would be almost insignificant compared to that of most BEVs.
It would take a few hours to charge but at least you knew you were going to get going again.

SWMBO simply refuses to consider a car that has no spare wheel. Both our Fiesta STs have the space saver option.
So no 911 for her

I even had to buy the BMW M3 space saver for my 330D estate as she was not prepared to go long distances on runflats. This allowed me to dump the dreadful runflats (10 years ago) and opt for standard tyres which were much better in those days. Jules

Milothedog wrote:

The charger companies need to make money so little point in putting in large numbers of chargers where there are few BEVs. So not surprisingly most chargers are in London, major cities and on motorways.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64384370

Public charger installation will follow the uptake of BEVs not lead it. Jules

@IanMetro
The VW van looks nice but quite expensive. I find it amusing that that VW include pretty interior lighting as a selling point on a £60K van. But I guess their researchers think the intended customer base will find it a dealer breaker.
From your figures its got a home charging range of about 80 miles in the summer.

I know its got retro styling but "leatherette" steering wheel sounds very Austin Allegro to me  Jules

Ipace gets me to choice of northern airports and home without needing a charge, even in winter, no theoretical ive done it with 4 passengers and cases.

Alton towers was a trip to far without charge, 30mins at stoke tesco sorted that. Used our time buying and eating sandwiches etc for lunch. Wife also grabbed milk and essentials to save stopping again for these. So in real terms only 15mins were lost, about the time it takes to stop and refuel an ice.
Charged up on solar first , spent £15 or so at tesco charger, then recharged on solar next day. There is cost to home solar charging, 14p/per kw,. As if not used it would have been sold on the export meter. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Don't you all get it?

EVs- expensive/range is poor/energy costs now up/use more co2 to manufacture/heavier so tyre use is more (big issue)/disposal of batteries problematic/just another option to rip us off/put responsibility on us for environmental issue (we are responsible unless we buy EV)/crap at towing/insurance more/takes about 5-7 years before carbon neutral.


that feels better now ive got it off my chest

Nice to hear someone is enjoying one of the best EVs and it JLR.

I would be interested to know how the insurance on the I-Pace compares with that of the FL2, by a real owner, in real pounds.

It know it is very nice to drive, but I was worried that it's impressive turn of speed, combined with its list price, may take it out of my reach. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

AT1963 wrote:

Don't you all get it?

EVs- expensive/range is poor/energy costs now up/use more co2 to manufacture/heavier so tyre use is more (big issue)/disposal of batteries problematic/just another option to rip us off/put responsibility on us for environmental issue (we are responsible unless we buy EV)/crap at towing/insurance more/takes about 5-7 years before carbon neutral.


that feels better now ive got it off my chest

AT1963 wrote:

Don't you all get it?

EVs- expensive/range is poor/energy costs now up/use more co2 to manufacture/heavier so tyre use is more (big issue)/disposal of batteries problematic/just another option to rip us off/put responsibility on us for environmental issue (we are responsible unless we buy EV)/crap at towing/insurance more/takes about 5-7 years before carbon neutral.


that feels better now ive got it off my chest

Someone has been Fossil washed.

Most of what you've said is fossilganda.

EVs are expensive, but so are top model phones, yet people buy those in their millions, yet they perform almost identically to the phones they replaced. Unfortunately the latest tech is more expensive, that's just commerce.

Range isn't that bad, and statistically 90% of the population could use an EV by charging just once or twice a week, depending on the vehicle purchased.

CO2, that's difficult to quantify exactly, but currently an EV does produce more CO2 to manufacture than an equivalent ICE, but it's not much more in real terms.
An ICE vehicle will never be carbon neutral, as it produces CO2 every single meter it moves down the road, and that's on top of the huge amount of CO2 emissions getting the fuel to the pumps in the first place.

Battery disposal is another bit of fossilganda. They DON'T need to be disposed of, they can be reused in equipment that is land or ship based, and only after they are completely exhausted of energy, the materials in them can be recycled, almost completely.

How much diesel or petrol can be recycled?

There should be more government incentives to switch to EVs, but currently there's no incentive to do that as governments are in the oil producer's pockets.

Even if it takes an EV 7 years to become carbon neutral (most are much less than that) the argument is moot, as an equivalent ICE will never become carbon neutral.

Charging them is currently a bit more expensive than it was a year ago, but it's still a lot cheaper per mile to charge an EV at home on an EV tariff, than it is to drive an ICE vehicle. My Freelander currently costs 26 Pence per mile to run, even the wife's more efficient VW costs 16 Pence per mile in fuel, both of these exclude serving costs, which all add up.
A good EV on my current electric tariff (not an EV tariff) would cost just 7 Pence per mile, and the annual service would be about £130, so an EV is under half the running costs.

Weight and tyres. Yes an EV is about 10-15% heavier than an equivalent ICE vehicle, but tyre wear on an EV isn't as high. Weight balance on an EV is better, so all tyres get a better spread of wear. Torque control from the motor is very carefully regulated to avoid spinning the tyres unnecessarily, which again increases tyre life. There are plenty of real would owners reports of EV tyres lasting much longer than their previous ICE vehicle. This tyre wear BS is another but of fossilganda.

Towing is a minor issue, as just 5% of drivers ever need to tow anything, and many new EVs can tow something, although we're a way off towing the equivalent of a Land Rover just yet, unless you go for a large American EV pickup.

It's good to get stuff off your chest, but if you must, do it with a degree of accuracy.  Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

[i]EVs are expensive, but so are top model phones, yet people buy those in their millions, yet they perform almost identically to the phones they replaced. Unfortunately the latest tech is more expensive, that's just commerce.[/i]

Therein lies the problem - some folk want to be seen with the latest iphone, nike trainers, rolex or whatever but currently there is a credibility problem with EV's as well as the high price. Tesla slashing prices overnight has had a knock on effect throughout the industry with the 2nd hand market in EV's falling across the entire range of different manufacturers. MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings