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Bogart



Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 514

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Stornoway Grey
Cut out again.

Once again the cutting out has reared its head, had to be transported back this morning. OBD say crankshaft position sensor, which it said some months ago and replacement cured if till now. One other question on cranking the engine should fuel come out of the pipe leading from the tank into the filter?

Post #410515 22nd Jul 2021 1:07 pm
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Kage



Member Since: 03 Oct 2018
Location: Midlands
Posts: 236

United Kingdom 2012 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

It might depend on the quality of the cps.
I replaced a failed camshaft position sensor with a cheap Italian made part which was supposed to be guaranteed for 5 years..
Failed after 8 months.

Post #410534 22nd Jul 2021 6:35 pm
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Bogart



Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 514

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Stornoway Grey

The supplier says I was very unlucky and they are sending out a replacement. The price difference is quite large though £12 for the one fitted as opposed to over £100 for the LR one, which they obviously do not make themselves.

Post #410565 23rd Jul 2021 7:41 am
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Kage



Member Since: 03 Oct 2018
Location: Midlands
Posts: 236

United Kingdom 2012 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

The cheap cam position sensor I bought was £18. Th LR one was £70,
Just checked my records. The cheap only lasted 5 months.
Nuff said. Wink

Post #410568 23rd Jul 2021 8:30 am
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Kage



Member Since: 03 Oct 2018
Location: Midlands
Posts: 236

United Kingdom 2012 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Santorini Black

Double post

Post #410569 23rd Jul 2021 8:35 am
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Dave47



Member Since: 31 Aug 2014
Location: Margate Kent
Posts: 1333

United Kingdom 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Izmir Blue

Dam, I've just brought a delphi one as backup,
I knew I should have invested more. Sad DAVE.

Post #410570 23rd Jul 2021 8:52 am
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impact



Member Since: 11 Mar 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 139

Australia 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Fuji White
Re: Cut out again.

Bogart wrote:
Once again the cutting out has reared its head, had to be transported back this morning. OBD say crankshaft position sensor, which it said some months ago and replacement cured if till now. One other question on cranking the engine should fuel come out of the pipe leading from the tank into the filter?


Had the same problem for the last 3 years. The occasional "misfire" / cutting out was so concerning I started carrying a spare crankshaft sensor with me just in case. Purchased 4 genuine crankshaft sensors before I got to the bottom of it, thinking they were either faulty or something was killing them.

Like many before me trying to work out what is causing this I replaced the fuel filter, chased the air bubbles in the fuel line, cleaned the throttle body, reset the throttle pedal, cleaned MAF sensor, cleaned the earth contact, installed second earth cable etc all to no avail.

It turned out to be just a faulty loom plug (bad connection). The connection is lost under certain conditions. To fix it I made extension cable from the sensor pins to the loom plug. I've included a photo to give an idea of how it looks. Essentially I purchased a kit on ebay that allows you to make up your own automotive electrical connectors. The connectors of course do not fit but the end male and female metal pins do.

I used three short cables, about 12 cm each (got mine from an old computer power supply). Each cable is terminated on each end by male and female pins (soldered), and shrink wrapped to insulate. It's not pretty but the car now works like a clock.

If anyone has an idea how aesthetics of the plug can be improved without buying another wiring loom please share.

Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge
 MY10 TD4 SE Auto

Post #410582 23rd Jul 2021 1:49 pm
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Bogart



Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 514

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Stornoway Grey

Fitted a new crankshaft position sensor and all good again, for now. Now was I just unlucky in the previous one failing after a few months? What worries me is on Wednesday after the first cut out and a 30 second wait it started again and did another mile
then died permanently. I could refit the other one and try again, but guess what cannot be bothered. Always possibility of the wiring being dodgy.

Post #410610 24th Jul 2021 1:33 pm
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impact



Member Since: 11 Mar 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 139

Australia 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Fuji White

The crankshaft sensor connector / plug has a small amount of up and down travel (about 0.5mm) when fully inserted and locked. I was able to demonstrate that the connector was not working as it should by moving the connector (with the engine off) along its path of withdrawal without releasing the lock/latch. With the plug in this position (about 0.5 mm up from its fully seated position, with the lock still fully engaged, at the upper limit of its free travel) the engine did not start - just kept on turning over.

When I pushed the plug all the way back in (along the path of insertion - about 0.5mm worth) the engine started just fine. I repeated the process 4 times and got the same result. I concluded that it’s entirely possible for the plug to move sufficiently while driving for contact to be lost.

I tried moving the plug with the engine running but that did not do anything. Not certain why, possibly not as sensitive at relatively low RPM?

I also measured width of pins on the sensors I’ve accumulated. Pin width on the sensor that came with the car in 2009 is 1.53mm. Pin width on the new genuine LR sensor is 1.49mm. Not sure if this difference in width is sufficient for contact to be lost when certain conditions are met but ever since I modified the plug (as described earlier) I have not had a problem.

Hopefully this helps someone. MY10 TD4 SE Auto

Post #410633 25th Jul 2021 3:05 pm
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Bogart



Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 514

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Stornoway Grey

Interesting you mentioned about plug movement. The new one appears to be much more firmly fixed in the socket than the one removed. Pushing the plug in it felt as if it had definitely got home, time will tell. Regarding the pin width I suppose one could always tin the pins. Twofold bonus less chance of corrosion and possibly a much better contact with the plug.

Post #410650 26th Jul 2021 8:38 am
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Bogart



Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 514

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Stornoway Grey

Decided this morning to change back to the old sensor. Guess what? Yes started fine. Wiggled sensor plug wiring no faults.
I hate problems like this. Am going to tin pin connections on the new sensor after dosing the plug with lots of contact cleaner.
Have no idea where these 3 wires disappear off to. Will drive around a bit with the splash shield off so if I get problems hopefully a quick unplug and plug in of the wiring might sort it.

Post #410819 30th Jul 2021 12:04 pm
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 4999

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red
Re: Cut out again.

Bogart wrote:

One other question on cranking the engine should fuel come out of the pipe leading from the tank into the filter?


No, the fuel pump is on the engine and sucks fuel through the filter. The pump in the tank is to maintain fuel levels on both sides of the tank; its saddle shaped, sitting over the driveline. Jules

Post #410824 30th Jul 2021 2:03 pm
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impact



Member Since: 11 Mar 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 139

Australia 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto Fuji White

When you say "tin the pins" do you mean flow solder over the pins to make them slightly bigger, and thus hopefully improve contacts? If so I though about doing that but decided against it as wasn't sure what all that heat would do to the insides of the sensor.

If you decide to try my method let me know and I'll try explaining in more detail.

Also, if you want the fault with the plug to become even more apparent remove the silicone water seal within the plug (you can put it back later). That way when you move the plug as I've described in my previous post (with the engine off, not while it's running) it won't recoil back by itself due to elasticity of the silicone. When heated, silicone becomes more plastic and therefore doesn't offer the same degree of "recoil" when you're driving around, so the contact is more easily lost. This can be easily confused with your classic symptom of crankshaft sensor failure. MY10 TD4 SE Auto

Post #410825 30th Jul 2021 2:11 pm
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Bogart



Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 514

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Stornoway Grey
Re: Cut out again.

jules wrote:
Bogart wrote:

One other question on cranking the engine should fuel come out of the pipe leading from the tank into the filter?


No, the fuel pump is on the engine and sucks fuel through the filter. The pump in the tank is to maintain fuel levels on both sides of the tank; its saddle shaped, sitting over the driveline.


Thought as much but was not 100%sure.

Post #410826 30th Jul 2021 3:03 pm
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Bogart



Member Since: 20 May 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 514

United Kingdom 2010 Freelander 2 TD4 XS Auto Stornoway Grey

impact wrote:
When you say "tin the pins" do you mean flow solder over the pins to make them slightly bigger, and thus hopefully improve contacts? If so I though about doing that but decided against it as wasn't sure what all that heat would do to the insides of the sensor.

If you decide to try my method let me know and I'll try explaining in more detail.

Also, if you want the fault with the plug to become even more apparent remove the silicone water seal within the plug (you can put it back later). That way when you move the plug as I've described in my previous post (with the engine off, not while it's running) it won't recoil back by itself due to elasticity of the silicone. When heated, silicone becomes more plastic and therefore doesn't offer the same degree of "recoil" when you're driving around, so the contact is more easily lost. This can be easily confused with your classic symptom of crankshaft sensor failure.


Hi basically done that. Additionally I put a small screwdriver into the plug and levered each pin slightly to narrow the gap. I gave the wiring a good tug each wire separately, no noticeable movement and no cutting out. Decided against tinning the sensor terminals what with my using the soldering iron more likely to solder plastic than the pin. Thought contact spray and the plug squeezing should be enough for now.

Anyway been told by the boss get shut and get another car as she is not going to drive it again. Wonder what she would do if I bought another FL2?

Post #410827 30th Jul 2021 3:08 pm
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