Sales figures can be presented/interpreted any number of ways positive or negative! If you take the year to date registrations for a number of manufacturers then JLRs figures are far from the worst! (Source SMMT)
Audi -26.88%
Ford -15.39%
Honda -13.59%
Hyundia -10.13%
Infiniti -65.96%
Jaguar -2.44%
Land Rover -1.04%
However Jeep and Volvo must be doing something right
Jeep +58.30%
Volvo +79.69%
Even VW seems to have been forgiven for dieselgate!
VW +5.13%
As I said at the top the figures probably mean very little in the real world. For example I suspect Jeep sales are up because the Renegade in 2wd form is hugely popular as a Mobility car!

People do seem to have a short memory when it comes to the damage that VW did to the cause of diesel and the industry in general. I will have a long memory for this one.

Meanwhile, Volvo’s warranty runs out at 60,000 miles and they don’t even have the option to sell an extended policy that will back their product beyond 90,000 miles, yet Volvo bang on about the quality and longevity of the cars, while LR get deeply criticised for not standing by their product.

There’s no justice!

Will Ford ever be able to stem the collapse in their market share?

I think it`s also worth remembering that most other manufacturers including Volvo are manufacturing "normal" saloon type vehicles which will account for a lot of their sales. Looking back at previous posts on the forum when there were posts about good news and how well Land Rover were doing/sales up etc there was only a couple of replies here and there. When its bad news the negative posts just keep coming! It has always seemed strange to me how some owners so readily line up to slag off the brand! I have owned Land Rovers since I started to drive( 80") but don`t consider myself an owner, I think of myself as an enthusiast!

Good point

I have had a couple of serious issues over the last 300,000 ish miles with mine and they drove me to distraction at the time, but most of my experiences have been positive and if they ever get their design mojo back and the prices are affordable at the time, I’d happily have another.

But I’ve never known another brand that’s so heartily slagged off by its owners. It can get a bit disheartening.

Other Makes have problems too (and fail to rectify them) It not only a JLR that seems to pough on regardless.

This is a Quote from the Mercedes GLC Forum.

Thanks for the tip. Though after a Freelander, two Range Rovers and two Discovery's I am really disappointed that I made the switch to the GLC. Not just because of the juddering but for many other reasons too - I really wish I hadn't made the switch. I wanted a smaller car now that my children are at full time school and I don't need the boot space for buggies and Mummy clutter, but didn't want an Evoque. The GLC seemed the answer, generally the car is good but it's just not doing it for me. I hope that you are happy with your GLC when you get it.
https://www.glcforums.com/forum/322-glc-is...ock-3.html

I touched on this unsolved GLC problem before.
http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic33275.html FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

dondiddy wrote:

I think it`s also worth remembering that most other manufacturers including Volvo are manufacturing "normal" saloon type vehicles which will account for a lot of their sales. Looking back at previous posts on the forum when there were posts about good news and how well Land Rover were doing/sales up etc there was only a couple of replies here and there. When its bad news the negative posts just keep coming! It has always seemed strange to me how some owners so readily line up to slag off the brand! I have owned Land Rovers since I started to drive( 80") but don`t consider myself an owner, I think of myself as an enthusiast!

I’m on my 10th LR, stuck by the brand through good times and bad but when spending £60k on a car and you can’t get the answers you want from dealers or LR it’s a tad frustrating to say the least. My Velar is a year old and I’m still trying to get issues resolved.

I ditched my D5 due to the early service warning but that was my fault as I wasn’t driving it correctly

This new generation of LRs are a world apart from Fl2. They are the worst I’ve experienced and it has made me question whether I would spend my money with the brand again. Prices are going in the wrong direction so LR need shape or I’m shipping out. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

If you have had personal issues with a car (or cars) then I would be quite rightly less than happy but some people seem to want to take it way beyond that by quoting the press, "friend of a friend" newspapers or any other source of a negative story regarding Land Rover. The same people are strangely quiet when there`s good news announced!

I wouldn't stay with the brand based on current ongoing technical issues and post-sale dealer support. I'll keep my (faultless) Freelander 2 until it falls to bits or becomes "banned" by our caring sharing Government. After that, who knows, but given current family experience of "modern" Land Rovers, I wouldn't invest in any more of their hardware. Too complicated, too expensive to fix, clueless dealers, and a gradual "freezing out" by deliberate reverse engineering of independent and non-franchised repairers make it a foolish choice and false economy.

I'm getting rid of my DS. Hoped to was the car that would serve me well for many years to come. After 12 months a new car was ordered..delivery due any time now... my first non-JLR in many many years.

It says something when my Vitara in the family is used in preference to the DS. The Vitara was about half the price too.

Hope JLR fix themselves...but for the time being not with my money I'm afraid.

Perhaps they need a pickup truck in the product line.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/4x4s/690-c...kup-trucks

Click image to enlarge

My problem is that I have had 2 FL2s which have given me trouble free motoring over the last 7 years. I have had them serviced properly and have had the couple of bits that have failed dealt with on those annual services.
I have enjoyed my experiences with the Official (and Independent) Dealers/Garages I have used to buy and look after my cars.

The Problem
... I am retired, so am cash rich, but income poor, and I notice the ever rising prices eating away at my savings.

I fear that although I like the Land Rover products, they are becoming dearer and dearer. Also I can see from other posts on this forum that there doesn't seem to be a cheap way of running an old one.

So I ask the younger readers, how does it appear to them, are JLR pricing themselves out of the market, or is real inflation taking all car prices up as the pound drops relative to other currencies.

One thing I do know is that the pound has dropped drastically in the last couple of years, my annual trip to Canada has risen by a 20% as the pound has fallen that much against the Canadian Dollar.

PS I notice in Canada there are quite a few RR products on the roads, but by far the most popular of that type of vehicle is the Dual Cab Pickup. LR really need one. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

I think that you'll find that JLR as a business are now chasing only new money, a younger audience with the disposable income to match, and couldn't care less about its heritage or former audience. Certainly most of the farmers in these parts all drive Jap vehicles now, as opposed to Defenders. If they can't get it right in their own county of birth, what does it tell you about the rest of the country?

I had a feeling that this was going to be the upward trend financially as far back as 2011, when the Evoque HSE was some £8k more than the Freelander for what was essentially the same vehicle albeit in a posh frock. The vehicles of today are all heavily road biased, and if they get the Defender wrong, then they are all but done for in the agricultural market and with legacy customers. Myself included.

Automotive News Europe 8/2/2019

Jaguar Land Rover, reeling from a $4 billion writedown, a slump in China sales and uncertainty around Brexit, said conditions aren’t right for it to borrow from the bond market and that it’s seeking alternative funding.

The luxury automaker needs to raise $1 billion within 14 months to replace maturing bonds, while feeding an investment program for electric cars that’s burning through cash. To support its needs, JLR could increase a receivables facility or turn to other bank financing, with further options including leasing assets and tapping export credit, Treasurer Ben Birgbauer said in an interview.

JLR’s owner Tata Motors shocked investors Thursday when it revealed the extent of the problems its UK arm is having in China. Sales of Jaguar sports cars and Land Rover SUVs dropped 35 percent in the world’s biggest auto market in the nine months to Dec. 31, sending the unit to a 273 million-pound ($354 million) loss and knocking as much as 30 percent off Tata stock.

“Market conditions presently are less favorable in general and our bonds are trading below par, reflecting our recent financial performance,” Birgbauer said by telephone. “We have always said we monitor the debt market and look to issue debt when market conditions are more favorable.”

Britain’s biggest carmaker is slashing 4,500 jobs, or about 10 percent of the workforce, as it responds to slowing sales. That’s on top of the 1,500 people who left the company in 2018. The measures will trigger a one-off charge of 200 million pounds in the current quarter.

JLR’s 4.5 percent bonds maturing Jan. 2026 have dropped to a low of 77 cents on the euro, equivalent to a yield of about 8.9 percent, according to prices compiled by Bloomberg.

The company is not planning to change its preference for unsecured financing, Birgbauer said. Remaining resources include a 1.9 billion-pound undrawn credit facility and 2.5 billion pounds of cash, based on the quarterly numbers published by Tata.

Dealer crisis

One major problem facing JLR in China is an ineffective dealer network, according to a presentation from the UK business. Only 18 percent of outlets are in so-called tier-one cities like Shanghai and Beijing, and more than one-third have been open for three years or less.

The company now plans to overhaul the operation, cutting back on deliveries to reduce stock and investing in measures to boost its brand, logo and slogans.

Executives said on a conference call with investors that it’s not possible to predict when China volumes will begin to recover, highlighting international trade tensions and how much stimulus the state chooses to provide as determining factors. JLR says it can still grow global sales in fiscal 2020 with the help of other markets and the launch of revamped Range Rover Evoque.

Prior to this week concerns about JLR’s performance had centered on the impact of Brexit and a government clampdown on diesel-powered vehicles in depressing UK car sales.

Royal London Asset Management had already reduced its exposure to JLR in response to “Brexit-specific risks and their ability to maintain access to the financial markets,” said head of global high yield Azhar Hussain.

Appetite among investors for riskier European debt has yet to bounce back after volatility swept through the market at the end of last year. There’s been very few sales of junk debt in Europe this year and high-yield spreads remain much wider than prior to their fourth-quarter blowout.

Re Ian Metro's point .... I think the private purchase car market now is mainly divided into two camps. Those that buy on PCP (80%) and those that buy with cash, or mainly cash with some HP (20%).

Presumably using a PCP the main concern is the monthly payment, not so much the list price of the vehicle.

And as PCPs have come to dominate the market list prices have been pushed up to maximise profits.

That hits the private purchaser who is not willing or able to take on a high £monthly PCP commitment from retirement income, and on the other hand also baulks at what seem to be over inflated LR list prices on vehicles that will undoubtedly depreciate very heavily.

I hope that LR can bring in a model (Defender version?) that might appeal to the private non PCP customer who wants to keep a reliable and reasonably priced vehicle for several years.

But if the money is in 3 year PCPs and inflated list prices I suppose that's where LR will concentrate?

However for that strategy to work product quality and customer service must be top notch to ensure repeating PCPs. PCPs may be where the money is, but PCP customers also have more opportunities to leave the brand than do private customers who typically have a longer ownership horizon ... and on the forums there are too many 'never agains' after oil dilution and balance shaft issues on Ingenium engines.

There are likely to be lots of used ex PCP vehicles available at heavily depreciated prices but who'll take them on with known deficiencies and unresponsive dealer support? JLR needs its home market more than ever now, but it must take care of it!

IanMetro wrote:

So I ask the younger readers, how does it appear to them, are JLR pricing themselves out of the market, or is real inflation taking all car prices up as the pound drops relative to other currencies.

One thing I do know is that the pound has dropped drastically in the last couple of years, my annual trip to Canada has risen by a 20% as the pound has fallen that much against the Canadian Dollar.

dondiddy wrote:

If you have had personal issues with a car (or cars) then I would be quite rightly less than happy but some people seem to want to take it way beyond that by quoting the press, "friend of a friend" newspapers or any other source of a negative story regarding Land Rover. The same people are strangely quiet when there`s good news announced!

At the same time though, I know I will walk back into a LR showroom and take another, it’s what I do, “this one was a disaster I’d love another one please” . I’ve looked at BMW and I’m still waiting on my 24hr test drive of the X3 that’s been a month now. Also looked at Volvo, both nice but they just don’t put a smile on my face like my Velar does.........





......when it works  21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200