Suckfish wrote:

SouthamFL2 wrote:

Explain then why Jaguar XE/XF, F-Pace, D5 (AJ200 Ingenium powered) RRS SDV6/8 and FFRR SDV6/8 engines DO NOT suffer from diesel dilution, and the rest of the stable do?

Further, how is it that as advised earlier JLR staff shuttling the Ingenium powered Evoque's and DS vehicles over 110 miles at motorway speeds on the M6 between Whitley and Halewood are suffering exactly the same issues and oil dilution problems?

I, like many who know the root cause of the problem, know the answer....the question is, do you? Or do you beleive the corporate "driving style" excuse as well?

The simple answer is that the DPF on the Jag models is located closer to the engine. When the car performs a regen cycle, the DPF gets hotter and thus burns off the cogged particles, The DPF need to get to 600deg C to turn the particles to soot.

So in the Jags the DPF is situated close to the engine - in the DS the DPF is further away, and there is the key to the problem. The exhaust gas temperature drops below the target temp as it passes through the exhaust system, if it cannot perform the regen due to this reason it repeats and repeats.

I think the solution many car manufactures have taken is wrong, a solution could have been to inject diesel into the exhaust system to allow for the hot burn regen. Thus no oil dilution issues.

Correct. How they got that so wrong I will never know. Their argument is that it is all to do with space constraints, so why launch a car with a view to making it Euro 6 within a year and not think about where the DPF/SCRF is going to be sited beforehand? Somebody needed a kicking for that balls-up.

I note this morning that the D5 TDV6 is calling for a service in less than 5000 miles.....wonder what the excuse will be this time?! No doubt it will be the fault of "Brexit" and "headwinds" as well.....

https://disco5.co.uk/forum/thread732.html

Oh dear what a sorry tale of woe that disco5 thread is.

A friend of mine bought a new DS about 4 months ago so I asked him how it was going and if he had had the oil dilution problem. His responses came as three separate WhatsApp messages.

1. On delivery the rear arm rest was broken - the replacement arm rest was also broken (they’ve obviously had a dodgy batch) and the rubbing noise I can hear is a driveshaft bearing. They’ve kept the car as they want to sort that before I drive it! So they’ve given me a fancy jag for the weekend!

2. I haven’t had any evidence of the oil dilution but now probably isn’t the time for me to recommend a Land Rover! Ours has developed another noise, Land Rover Assist checked it last week (after the garage tried to wash their hands of it) and despite the diagnosis there is something else wrong with it. It’s in the garage and as of yesterday when the garage messed us about I’m now driving a huge brand new Discovery while they sort it out! I’m beginning to wish I’d bought a different make. The Customer service from Westover is appalling!

3. Apparently the latest problem is the Balance Shaft Bearings in the engine. According to the garage they are noisy and the workshop feel they need replacing. I find it amazing that such parts need replacing on a brand new car!

Item 3 sounds like an engine strip down job. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Hope that makes your mind up Dorset on previous post about you keeping or changing the Freelander 2, I would not dream of parting with my cash on the junk Land Rover/Jaguar have produced last few years.

dorsetfreelander wrote:

A friend of mine bought a new DS about 4 months ago so I asked him how it was going and if he had had the oil dilution problem. His responses came as three separate WhatsApp messages.

1. On delivery the rear arm rest was broken - the replacement arm rest was also broken (they’ve obviously had a dodgy batch) and the rubbing noise I can hear is a driveshaft bearing. They’ve kept the car as they want to sort that before I drive it! So they’ve given me a fancy jag for the weekend!

2. I haven’t had any evidence of the oil dilution but now probably isn’t the time for me to recommend a Land Rover! Ours has developed another noise, Land Rover Assist checked it last week (after the garage tried to wash their hands of it) and despite the diagnosis there is something else wrong with it. It’s in the garage and as of yesterday when the garage messed us about I’m now driving a huge brand new Discovery while they sort it out! I’m beginning to wish I’d bought a different make. The Customer service from Westover is appalling!

3. Apparently the latest problem is the Balance Shaft Bearings in the engine. According to the garage they are noisy and the workshop feel they need replacing. I find it amazing that such parts need replacing on a brand new car!

Item 3 sounds like an engine strip down job.

Yes this is starting to sound like a rerun of British Leyland in the 70's I am rapidly coming around to the view that I should extend the warranty for another year and then decide what to do next. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Although I don't need to change my car, given the very low annual mileage it does and most of it as a tow car, I really don't think I'd be considering another jaguar Land Rover car.

I still find the FL2 better than the DS on so many levels. If you've got a good FL2 my suggestion would be keep it.

There is a balance shaft problems with the diesel ingenium engine, it seems to strike at random across jag and LR models of different ages, first fix is new shafts and bearings, but this often doesnt work so its new engine time.

Apparently there is a new design of shaft now, but a lot of the old designs were made. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Then three years down the line you could end up with a bill for a new engine as I can’t see Land Rover recalling all the DS for a engine change, does the Freelander2 with rear diff ring a bell

Back to the thread topic.

JLR owner Tata Motors seems to be in more general trouble. I do wonder if JLR may be finding itself with a new owner soon, as JLR get a special mention in the share price notice of loss.

The Tata Motors share price crashed to a fresh 52-week low of 141.90, down 22.41% or 41 points compared to the previous close of 182.90 on BSE. Singed by a non-cash charge of Rs 27,838 crore to cover the impairment at Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) in the three months to December 31 and a cut in future profit margin outlook, the Tata Motors share price ended 17.28% lower to Rs 151.30 on the BSE.

https://www.businesstoday.in/markets/compa...18342.html

For the good of the company I think we need to stop blaming past events and people. What we need is a plan on how JLR are going to reinvent its product line, or cut the cost of production.

It seems that the extreme luxury market is just about holding up, but in my opinion they need to streamline and cut the cost of there entry level vehicles. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 79k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Last edited by IanMetro on 9th Feb 2019 11:00 am. Edited 1 time in total

As I mentioned elsewhere, I suspect that they (TATA) will split the brand, retain Jaguar (profitable and innovative)and sell off Land Rover.(unprofitable and a cause of overall losses)

If the Chinese got hold of it, perhaps they could pull the brand back up to standard, rather like Geeley have done with Volvo. Driving an XC60 and then a DS for example is chalk and cheese in the build quality stakes.

SMMT Registrations 2018


JLR --- units 2018, % share - units 2017, % share, (% change)

Jaguar 37,019, 1.56 35,544, 1.40 (4.15)

Land Rover 77,906, 3.29 82,653, 3.25 (-5.74)

Last edited by SouthamFL2 on 9th Feb 2019 10:33 am. Edited 1 time in total

@ Ian: Although I hear what you’re saying, I find it a shock to see what’s happened to the price of generic / rubbish cars over the last 5 years, so LR’s price starting point might just be a sign of the times.

For instance, talking of rubbish, a 3 Series saloon STARTS at over £33,000, while that other universal automotive cockroach, the VW Golf starts at £19,500 if you want a full set of doors and don’t mind poverty spec trim and an asthmatic engine. Prices have generally risen, while we would all rather LR continue to produce a proper 4 wheel drive car for the current price of automotive mediocrity

@ Southam: Land Rover having been keeping Jaguar alive for several years. It’s only the F-Pace that’s stopped their slide over the last year - potentially taking many of those sales from LR.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable about the wholesale takeover of many of our (European) businesses by the Chinese and wonder where this dependence will leave us in years to come

Reuters
NEW DELHI -- Tata Motors lowered its profit margin guidance for the Jaguar Land Rover unit for the current fiscal year after it posted its biggest quarterly loss on Thursday, hurt by a one-time impairment charge.

Tata Motors expects the EBIT (earnings before interest and tax) margin for JLR for the fiscal year 2018-19 ending March 31 to be "marginally negative" compared with an earlier guidance of breaking even, Chief Financial Officer, PB Balaji said.

Troubles at JLR, which has been hit hard by U.S.-China trade tensions, low demand for diesel cars in Europe and Brexit worries, had tipped Tata into its first loss in three years in the quarter ended June 2018.

While Tata has announced plans to turn around JLR, the slide in the unit's sales has continued for now with retail sales in China falling nearly 50 percent during the quarter ending Dec. 31.

"We are now taking clear and decisive actions in JLR to step up its competitiveness, reduce costs and improve cash flows and make the business fit for the future," Balaji told reporters on a conference call.

The automaker has taken steps to address the slide in sales in China by changing its strategy to focus on profits of dealers instead of sales and incentivizing retail sales over wholesale, Balaji said.

"We see a gradual improvement in China going forward. We are happy to see our numbers stabilize now in terms of off take," he said.

Tata's loss came at 269.93 billion rupees ($3.78 billion) for the three months ended Dec. 31, compared with a profit of 11.99 billion rupees in the year-ago period. Revenue rose 5.8 percent to 762.65 billion rupees.

The company took a non-cash charge of 278.38 billion rupees ($3.9 billion) to cover the impairment at JLR in the three months to Dec. 31. Changes in market conditions, especially in China, technology disruptions and rising cost of debt resulted in the charge.

JLR, Britain's biggest automaker, is also facing disruption due to uncertainty over a Brexit deal and has decided to halt production for a couple of weeks in April.

British Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal was rejected in parliament last month and the government is trying to make changes to win the support of lawmakers even as the divorce date for Britain's departure from the European Union looms less than two months away.

Tata Motors has also embarked on a plan to deliver cash savings of 2.5 billion pounds over 18 months to March 2020. Balaji said it has already achieved savings of 500 million pounds and is well on course to achieve the target.

Tata Motors has faced a decline in sales in India as well.