shilen wrote:

Its a pity that they didn't get a proper small FL2'ish' sub £20K SUV on the market when they axed the FL2 - might have sold like hotcakes. LR too niche now - most models looking similar and pricing way out of most people's pockets.

Most manufacturers have at least one SUV in their range now and they are proving more popular than their saloons / hatchbacks so the demand is there - just not over-priced ones!

The Defender cannot come soon enough - but at circa £35K is it a step too far???

SouthamFL2 wrote:

Begs the question why they can't all utilise the same architecture doesn't it? Internal politics no doubt.....rather than bullsiht excuses such as "Brexit", "Headwinds" and "Diesel demonization"

Don't be facetious, I was referring to Jaguar and Land Rover sharing technology, not the manufacturer that caused the whole stack of cards to fall over in the first place with their dodgy Bosch ECU's.

Are you saying that there is no future market for Diesel engines full stop then? If so, what utter rubbish. The green zealots might be screaming for electric vehicles, but there are certain modes of transport required that simply CANNOT utilise that technology.

All these ridiculous claims by certain manufacturers of obsoleting combustion engines by 20xx is simply pandering to environMENTALists.....

Last edited by SouthamFL2 on 7th Feb 2019 9:16 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Dropping the Fl2 makes no difference, the cars have been selling and selling well but the bubble has to burst at some point.

The DS is LRs best selling model but drastically needs updated.

2008 IIRC LR hit the skids, but it was the Evoque in 2011 that brought in the money.

The product line up ain’t the problem but pricing, poor quality, poor dealers and LRs don’t care attitude is the problem. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

j77 wrote:

The product line up ain’t the problem but pricing, poor quality, poor dealers and LRs don’t care attitude is the problem.

LR are not perfect, indeed quite a few (not all) of their recent designs have been shocking, but it’s the nearest thing we have to a serious, locally based, manufacturer. Meanwhile, many of the unhappy reliability and dealership stories could just as easily have come from any of the other major manufacturers; I’ve experienced none that have been better and plenty that have been a lot worse (Ford, Vauxhall, VW sales, Citroen, Ford, Citroen, Austin Rover and did I mention, Ford?! )

Despite the havoc wreaked by Gerry McGovern and his unique line in pretentious pseudo-designer twaddle, I’ll be very sad to see JLR in trouble and for the sake of the livelihoods at the 3 UK plants (and the talented portion at Gaydon), hope that Speth can manage his way out of this

Last edited by Tigger on 7th Feb 2019 8:50 pm. Edited 2 times in total

j77 wrote:

Dropping the Fl2 makes no difference, the cars have been selling and selling well but the bubble has to burst at some point.

The DS is LRs best selling model but drastically needs updated.

2008 IIRC LR hit the skids, but it was the Evoque in 2011 that brought in the money.

The product line up ain’t the problem but pricing, poor quality, poor dealers and LRs don’t care attitude is the problem.

IanMetro wrote:

For anyone wanting a car for lots of short journeys, the diesel is the wrong choice, and a Battery Electric or Battery Hybrid (PHEV) would be better.

.

Not sure what model you are referring to but my DS has adjustable lumbar support on the front seats, no issues with squeaks or rattles and the heater fan works as it should. Granted there is a "family" resemblance between models but I don`t think that they could ever be described as dull!

dorsetfreelander wrote:

In the case of the oil dilution saga, what counts as a short journey? 10 miles driving from cold in town traffic or perhaps 10 miles from cold along an open road at 60mph?

The joys of producing a grossly overpriced, badly engineered with shocking reliability

The following is from a Subaru Forum
Oil dilution results from diesel fuel entering the engine oil during the post injection phase of an active regeneration cycle (also compulsory regen). to offset this dilution, evaporation of the fuel component in the engine oil occurs when the engine is operated for extended periods at optimum temperature.
From my experience for a standard (12.5K) oil change interval -
1 if DPF regens are limited to about 35 (aprox 360 km / regen), then ODR will be low, up to aprox 4%.
2 if DPF regens are limited to about 42 (aprox 300 km / regen), then ODR will be in range of 7 - 10%.
3 if DPF regens go above 50 (aprox 250 km / regen) then it is likely that the 10% ODR limit will be triggered (DPF warning light FLASHING), and the 12.5K service interval will not be met.
In fact I have seen ODR reach 10% limit after only 3,000 km, and 55 regens.
Subaru's use of the flashing DPF light to indicate 10% ODR is not a great idea in my opinion, as this flashing light is also used to indicate "compulsory regen required", "DPF limp home", "Ash accumulation ratio = 100%". It would make more sense to have a separate ODR warning light.
https://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f...on-668258/

It seems to me that Oil Dilution and DPF problems are generic to all suitablely equipped Diesel Vehicles, but are heavily influenced by the type of usage.

Honest John's article is worth reading.
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/diesel-particulate-filters/

For shorter runs Oil Dilution is rampant and oil changes need to be very frequent. JLR, like other manufacturers, should have realised this and advised (and produced) petrol engines to cope with this. In the meantime, cars at risk, should have much shorter periods between oil changes.

The DPF looks as if it will clog up and die anyway, although long runs at a decent speed will make it last longer.
http://www.dieselhub.com/maintenance/fuel-dilution.html


The legislation that gave us the problem is here to stay, I hope that JLR (and others) come clean and admit the problem and help sort out the consequences.
BUT that means money. FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Explain then why Jaguar XE/XF, F-Pace, D5 (AJ200 Ingenium powered) RRS SDV6/8 and FFRR SDV6/8 engines DO NOT suffer from diesel dilution, and the rest of the stable do?

Further, how is it that as advised earlier JLR staff shuttling the Ingenium powered Evoque's and DS vehicles over 110 miles at motorway speeds on the M6 between Whitley and Halewood are suffering exactly the same issues and oil dilution problems?

I, like many who know the root cause of the problem, know the answer....the question is, do you? Or do you beleive the corporate "driving style" excuse as well?

"Despite the havoc wreaked by Gerry McGovern and his unique line in pretentious pseudo-designer twaddle, I’ll be very sad to see JLR in trouble "
I am with Tigger on that quote. Current senior management direction is largely responsible for designing out loyal customers. Why would any company buy their senior executives an XJ - there is simply inadequate access to the rear seat where most executives need to sit to work on their journeys to the board room or wherever - a conscious management decision to drive away from the profitable and huge market for luxury saloons just because someone loves to squash the roof on his designs.
Why has there been no model to value, retain and foster the core brand identity which the Defender and its predecessors created over decades? In most news reports of major snow fall or emergency incidents in the UK there is still usually a shot of a Defender coming to the rescue and flying the flag for the brand. How could they possibly despise that esteem which Land Rover used to own? The new Defender is going to cost £40K plus - what planet are these guys on? Why no replacement for the Freely 2 and abandonment of the hugely profitable market sector in the £25k to £35K range? Continued and relentless failure over decades to design for reliability, quality and low running costs. Thirteen different models across JLR ranges - idiotic for a relatively small scale producer aspiring to tout "premium" status with very un-premium evidenced consumer ratings across every market. Geely have done a fine job in allowing Volvo to thrive even in difficult market conditions. In comparison, Tata have unfortunately allowed the JLR lot to design out their customer base.

SouthamFL2 wrote:

Explain then why Jaguar XE/XF, F-Pace, D5 (AJ200 Ingenium powered) RRS SDV6/8 and FFRR SDV6/8 engines DO NOT suffer from diesel dilution, and the rest of the stable do?

Further, how is it that as advised earlier JLR staff shuttling the Ingenium powered Evoque's and DS vehicles over 110 miles at motorway speeds on the M6 between Whitley and Halewood are suffering exactly the same issues and oil dilution problems?

I, like many who know the root cause of the problem, know the answer....the question is, do you? Or do you beleive the corporate "driving style" excuse as well?