Hmmm you guys are tempting me back to a FL2, I really need to find someone with a tow ball who is willing to let me try it out

My GS auto FL2 is also 1970kg mass in service, which I also believe is the equivalent of kerb weight and is the figure Plod should use in determining whether I am legal or not.

LR quote from 1770kg KW in the spec sheets..... The actual KW or Mass In Service figure will depend on the model you buy..... A good dealer ought to know or be able to find the figure for the one you want. A 1900 kg trailer behind a 1770kg FL2 would not be good, nor afaik, legal.

Your 1900kg MTPLM caravan would be approximately 96.5% for a GS (or XS) auto and OK for an experienced tower... In the past I towed at close to 100% with a Citroen C5 auto and it was a very, very stable outfit.... however, I believe I was using the published kerb weight rather than the actual mass in service (which would have been higher). The heavier the tug the less chance there is for the tail to wag the dog!

As to whether the power is adequate for a relaxing tow?? Well Land Rover say the FL2 will restart on a 1:8 hill with 2 tonnnes on the back.... that is all the 2000kg towing figure usually means - although it can also be calculated from the gross train weight of the vehicle less the maximum permitted mass of the vehicle. One 'rule of thumb' suggests you should aim for 40hp per tonne of mass (car =2500kg plus caravan).... 40x4.4 tonnes =176 hp. The FL2 is 160hp so may be just a tad underpowered???

If you can get a test drive of a FL2 with your caravan on the back it would be good and allow you to make a sensible judgement.

I'm extremely pleased with the FL2 performance when towing - but then I've only got a 1500kg single axle (a ratio of 76%).

Firestar wrote:

..... A good dealer ought to know or be able to find the figure for the one you want...

Very sorry but I would disagree with this, unfortunately there is plenty of evidence to suggest that both car and caravan dealers will say what they need to in order to gain a sale... wouldn't want to tar them all with the same brush, there might the odd good'un out there. But the caravan forums regularly carry sorry tales from people who have been ill advised by dealers whose only interest is making the sale. Stornoway Grey GS ... What a fine motor ... but not any more ... ... psst look at my gallery!
Company cars ... a thing of the past - May 2013.

I understand what you say Avtur, but my experience of LR dealers is that they are more clued up about towing issues - at least here in North Suffolk.

If the OP is buying second hand the dealer will have the V5 to refer to for a mass in service figure rather than LR's spec "from 1770 kg". I imagine there is an official Land Rover list of models and their MiS which a dealer could refer to and print off to show a prospective purchaser.?

I agree that roboughton should be extremely careful in his selection of Freelander 2 to ensure it will do what he wants, fully legally (i.e. a MiS in excess of his caravan's MTPLM).

My suggestion would be to contact the Caravan Club legal dept (if you are a member) to clarify the 'weights issue', and LR customer service for the weights of the models. Get it all on paper, and go from there.....

You may well find a dealer with a demo FL2 or an ex LR management s/h, or just a s/h car that has a tow bar on it. Ask nicely and I'm sure they may let you have it for a day's test drive to try it. I'm sure in an hour or so on a local known road you would be able to tell whether a FL2 is man enough for the job....... Let's face it they have to bend over backwards, or is it forwards to get a sale these days

If you find it to be legal to tow on the weights front as above.

Just my 2p

My take is this...

Kerbweight, MiS, MIRO, et al are not the issue. There are too many interpretations of these and no specific standards attached to these phrases.

From an enforcement point of view the weights required are the statutory weights on the vehicle and trailer data plates. They are (on the car) gross vehicle weight, gross gross train weight, axle weight 1 & axle weight 2. And on the caravan then the critical weight is MTPLM (its max permissable weight). With this information and a weighbridge then mr plod will have all the information he needs to assess whether 'the rig' is being used inside or outside design specifications.

I think I'm right in saying that every Land Rover ever produced has been given a towing weight over its kerb weight, thats the appeal of the beasts, they can tow all manner of trailers legally. For the FL2 then the figures are Gross vehicle 2505kgs and gross train 4505kgs legally the difference is the maximum trailer weight.

Certainly the driving dynamics of a caravan as opposed to say a car transporter trailer are different, the 'sail' area of a caravan can have quite an effect on the aerodynamics as any of us who tow caravans know full well.

One of the crazy things about all this is that you could potentially have a poorly distirbuted load in a caravan that is otherwise not only legal but even compliant with the caravan club 85% guideline, which is far more unstable than a heavier but well loaded caravan.

Sorry, just to acknowledge the last two posts, then yes I would like to believe that a LR salesperson would have better understanding than the guy selling a Nissan Micra (but my own experience of LR sales does NOT bear this out). And certainly a test drive with the van on the back has to be the best way to go. Stornoway Grey GS ... What a fine motor ... but not any more ... ... psst look at my gallery!
Company cars ... a thing of the past - May 2013.

Here is my second 2p worth.

What Avtur says is worth taking note of.

Re the BHP issue, I think the Torque, ie 400Nm is a big plus, the BHP nowadays is less relevant.

Maybe if you just wish to move the caravan a hundred miles or so from home to a site once a year then maybe the 95%+ ratio is not such a big issue - the FL2 is bound to cope. However, if the use is a multi-thousand miles a year touring around the continent situation, then I would certainely wish for a far heavier towing vehicle - those winds near the mediterranean can be strong and gusty.

P.S.- You are certainely getting a lot of opinions, and it is nice that the subject is not being hi-jack with irrelevant comments.

Yep its all good info.

I am swinging back to a disco3 again

I know alot about caravans etc I was wondering about the sail affect thats why i was asking for the peole that tug caravans to advise (its all good advie guys not just from the tuggers) I will see if i can get a test drive with a car that has a bar on it.

But as it stands me thinks im am going to go for the Disco3 its simply not worth the risk for an extra 10mpg over my life or anyone elses for that matter, even if the govenment do want to tax us out of the flipping things. I am sure my carbon footprint is alot smaller than ppl that travel by air

Big shame as i like the FL2 but i am just worried about the stability of it, i am sure it would tug it no problem.

I know nothing of vans but a bit about towing so agree with Eddie, the legality of your towing weights is one thing but one day you will find yourself on a motorway with a tearing crosswind and I pretty sure you would be extremely glad if you chose the heavier disco. Basically its your/your families property or even life at peril, so why not go the extra for safety's sake? And me and my families safety at risk to if I happen to be sharing the same stretch of road as you. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Just a quick aside.

Having owned 3x Disco 3's, and towed with all of them, and the FL2, and also driven RR's quite a bit, but not towed with one, you may find that if you like the way a FL2 drives solo you will prefer a RRS.

I actually very nearly bought one (s/h RRS) instead of the FL2 but I can manage to tow my stuff with it.

I found the RRS 'feels' a lot less floaty..hence more stable than the Disco3 and felt it would make a better tow car. Unless you need the extra space in a Disco that is.

Happy Christmas & Happy test driving

chicken george wrote:

I know nothing of vans but a bit about towing so agree with Eddie, the legality of your towing weights is one thing but one day you will find yourself on a motorway with a tearing crosswind and I pretty sure you would be extremely glad if you chose the heavier disco. Basically its your/your families property or even life at peril, so why not go the extra for safety's sake? And me and my families safety at risk to if I happen to be sharing the same stretch of road as you.

I totally agree with CG. I have been caravanning for 21 years and cost should not be taken into account with regards to safety. The Disco3 being much heavier and having a low ratio gearbox will be a better match for your caravan.
But you could always go to the extreme.
http://www.bauer-millett.com/controller.ph...ode=HUMMER

Only a Joke

waaxh03

My understanding is, that the law stated that you are allowed to tow over 100% of the cars kerb weight, but as long as you do NOT exceed the manufacturers max tow limit. In the FL2's case 2000kg's.

Personally I would not want to do this, I tow a Coachman Amara 520/4 which has a max weight of 1454kg's, although the FL2 tows it perfectly well, I would not want to tow anything bigger. Freelander 2 HSE Lux 2013MY - Barolo Black with Ivory Leather. Alpine DVD - Privacy -Evoque 20" Dynamic Wheels and more to come.........

Quote:

I would not want to tow anything bigger

Well I tow another 50kg very happliy and would be just as happy even with more on the back.... if I ever buy another caravan.

The FL2 virtually doesn't notice the extra 1.5 tonnes behind it now and I don't imagine another 10% on top would make a great difference - there is lots of power / torque in hand!

I chose the FL2 over other vehicles to ensure I wasn't too close to 100%, though. Safety is important to me, as well!!

0% is an ideal towing ratio  At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

chicken george wrote:

0% is an ideal towing ratio

Especially with a tractor or pickup truck.

waaxh03