oops, pasted it back to where I copied it from

... Goes to make stronger coffee

Yep, that's some of the craziness.

From what they are saying in the papers if we vote out and it is a win they will just use this as an excuse to go back around the table and renegotiate another deal and then have another vote and continue like that until they get an IN?

Someone else said being in the EU means you cant ever get out of it, its like checking out of a hotel and they keep your passport.

Also what would ever happen in the unlikely event, but possible, of a 50 50 in/out vote? would the result be fiddled to sway it the right way then??

Thing is theres too many of those with a seat on the EU gravy train getting backhanders they will fight to keep that or bust themselves I know they will?

So many arguments from both sides, and all reasonable. For me, the most worrying thing is how the Media will almost dictate the outcome. For years we have allowed the media to manipulate us, and the politicians.

Exactly! Do not listen to "Project Fear". It is just a means of scaring us in to voting "Remain". Nothing so comfy as the "status quo". I hope it becomes the "Remainians" who run scared by 23/6. 10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey (Now Gone)

08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

Exactly as the dirt is dished out for the next 3 months I wonder if they will pose a newspaper reporting blackout if its pointing to go the wrong way?? You know in the interests of Government security, which they seem to think is at risk if we come out? though I cant see how if we can control it all ourselves?

I am retired with lots of free time and I read the Financial Times every day. Last week they did a series of meaty articles trying to analyse various possible outcomes and scenarios. I can't say I understood everything as it was pretty heavy going economics but the one big conclusion was that it's impossible to say whether we will be better off after 10/15 years either in or out since in either case the world around us will probably be different anyway (eg look at the Scottish referendum and the oil price). So you can forget economic arguments.
What was flagged up though was the bigger issue that an unstable EU (almost certain to happen if we leave) is exactly what Russia wants so that it can start stirring up trouble in the East and that would affect us whatever we do. Two world wars have shown that we can't escape happenings in Europe. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

When it comes to stirring up trouble in the east, the EU is not exactly innocent.

When someone in an interview says that if we leave the EU we will be cutting ourselves off from a £450 billion market, or whatever it is, I'm really not sure what they mean, are they actually implying all trade with Europe will stop or are they trying to say something else? 
Hung like Einstein, smart as a horse.

I cannot see trade being affected in the long run. There may well be initial dips both ways, but we will still want their BMWs and wine etc, they will still want our Range Rovers and whiskey, to name but a few.

Re the possibility of "trouble in the east" - how can we be held to ransom by the possibility of something we will have no control over and which may well happen anyway? Our security is by virtue of membership of NATO, not EU. 10MY (Sept 09) TD4 HSE Auto in Stornoway Grey (Now Gone)

08 FL2 TD4 SE Manual in Rimini Red (Now Gone)

Definitely in the leave camp, me...

Especially after seeing how the EU's laid waste to Greece over the last 6-8 years (present crisis included).

It's quite amusing how Nigel Farage has become a mini celebrity here with his cheeky speeches in the EU parliament... 2013 SE TD4 in Mauritius Blue [Written off]

Remember that this is not just a referendum on economics (the Financial Times thinks that it won't make a whole lot of difference either way) or migration. For me there is a bigger issue at stake which is the overall stability of Europe. We may have bureaucracy in Brussels but have had 70 years of peace in Europe which is the longest sustained period in history. This is one of the key reasons for setting up the EU in the first place. The cost of conflict far out weighs any economic arguments. 3 x FL1 2 manual + 1 auto
5 x FL2 4 manual + 1 auto
Now Discovery Sport P250 MHEV SE

Greece can hardly blame the EU for its own governments incompetency of spend, spend, spend what they never had. Not surprising Greeks like Farage, they are fascists by nature.
I can't see trade altering very much, although for Asian and American markets to get a foothold in the EU they have to be in a member country to spread their wares, who will want to invest in the UK when we are solitary.

I'm in for plenty of good reasons.

dorsetfreelander wrote:

For me there is a bigger issue at stake which is the overall stability of Europe.

>they are fascists by nature
Au contraire, my fine plucky online forum poster, Greece is hugely socialist, hence the spend spend spend and voting in a far-left wing government.
I think you read my comments out of context - he's a mini celebrity here only for talking rudely to un-elected Eurocrats. Not for his goose stepping around the BBC studios at Question Time.

I'd be interested to know where you got that conclusion from... 2013 SE TD4 in Mauritius Blue [Written off]

dunkley201 wrote:

dorsetfreelander wrote:

For me there is a bigger issue at stake which is the overall stability of Europe.

We cannot be held to ransom in UK just to keep the EU together.
Bob