I'm not talking about spec levels here just how cars have changed. I've had several new cars in recent years with on board computers and all sorts of other gizmos. My current Fiesta ST has various menus and sub-menus on the computer, heated part leather seats, various traction control settings and overboost for more power when going flat out etc.

Then the other day, I drove my sisters 2003 Ford Focus 1.6 LX. Fairly basic but all the essentials are there and it was weird how less felt like more. There was an unthinkable choice of warm or cold air from the vents by turning a dial without selecting specific temperatures. You had to go to great effort to turn the headlights on yourself by way of a dial. Then best of all, the engine is started using a key!

The original Focus was a great car and still doesn't look dated even now. I had a 1.6 petrol LX in 2004 then later owned a 1.8 TDCi Ghia. The diesel was more powerful and faster but I still preferred the silky smooth petrol.

Just got me thinking how cars have changed so much in such a short space of time. This electric power steering business just does not have the same feel as a hydraulic setup so that is a backward step IMO but does give an advantage when parking.

Anyone else own a more simple car or driven one recently? Any thoughts compared to modern cars? LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

The amount of unnecessary tech on vehicles is staggering. I would be interested to know which stupid thought the world needed electronic handbrakes? Was it really that difficult to pull a lever?

Eh? You're driving around in a car loaded with technology to make your trip easier. I absolutely love the electronic handbrake on my Evoque and I presume it is exactly the same on the late FL2's? I've had my car over two months and NOT ONCE have I had to use it. I switch the car off, it automatically comes on. I start up and engage drive, it automatically comes off. I stop on a hill and the brakes hold on for up to two seconds while I take my foot off the brake and onto the accelerator. Bloody marvellous. What is there not to like about it? I see you have a FL2 HSE. Didn't fancy a Defender then?  Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
Evoque SD4 Dynamic Lux Auto
Present: Audi A3 S Line.

Last edited by Steve D on 1st Jan 2016 8:16 pm. Edited 1 time in total

my 1987 Golf Gti is simple and basic compared to the modern equivalent.

completely standard as it left the factory with wind up windows, no power steering, Blaupunkt radio cassette, steel sliding sunroof, steel wheels, etc

when I bought it back then it was state of the art !!

but you need to embrace technology

Iain

My 1983 vw camper van has only one heat setting - hot, as the control cables are knackered and I don't have the time to sort them. I drive it with the window open or heat to the feet and cold air to the face. I can leave the lights on all day as there isn't a warning buzzer and no power steering means steering can be very heavy when parking. Demisting takes forever as it doesn't have a separate fan motor, relying on engine speed or forward speed for flow of air. It doesn't have a rear window demist either. It's very low on power but drinks petrol like a V8. It does not even have a cigarette lighter socket, so the phone is charged off a clip on type attached to one of the batteries. It still makes me smile when I drive it.

I wouldn't want to drive it to work as it would take forever to warm up and demist and I'd miss some of the luxury I have in my Freelander such as the cruise control for the 0600 motorway journey to work.

Gav.

With a "crashbox", no power steering, no brake servo, drum brakes, leafsprings, etc. I get back to basics with my S2A.

But.... even this one has luxury features. I fitted heated windscreens and a cubby box!



But, there is no better place for a happy dog.

Steve D wrote:

Eh? You're driving around in a car loaded with technology to make your trip easier. I absolutely love the electronic handbrake on my Evoque and I presume it is exactly the same on the late FL2's? I've had my car over two months and NOT ONCE have I had to use it. I switch the car off, it automatically comes on. I start up and engage drive, it automatically comes off. I stop on a hill and the brakes hold on for up to two seconds while I take my foot off the brake and onto the accelerator. Bloody marvellous. What is there not to like about it? I see you have a FL2 HSE. Didn't fancy a Defender then?

Epb's are great while the vehicle is under warranty but if the discovery is anything to go by they can be a nightmare, and an expensive one to fix, when the vehicle gets older! A conventional handbrake is simple and inexpensive to fix if it ever needs it. My '58 plate Transit has a hill start feature but retains a conventional handbrake
All the modern electronic aids are great if you can afford to change your car every few years but can be costly and problematic for owners who wish to or can only afford to run older vehicles
Just my thoughts...rant over  It better to laugh than cry

Disco sport 2016 HSE
FL2 2011 XS gone
Disco3 2005 Tdv6 SE gone
Disco2 2000 Td5 ES gone
Disco1 1998 V8iS gone
Disco1 1996 3dr 300tdi gone

I drove a Defender for three years and loved it. As I have got older (and softer) I like the comfort and warmth of the FL2! I agree heated windscreen, electric seats, bluetooth, terrain response, auto dipping mirrors, parking sensors etc are all luxuries which make life easier but aren't necessary. With the exception of the terrain response they tend not to go wrong though and if they did I could still use the car.

A handbrake, however, is pretty critical to the safe use of any vehicle. As cars age electronic handbrakes will go wrong I guarantee. It's not the technology I have a problem with it's the cost of fixing it when it does go wrong. Personally, I have never found it difficult to use a conventional handbrake so I don't see having a computer help me as being an "aid" just an unnecessary complication.

Disconev wrote:

Epb's are great while the vehicle is under warranty but if the discovery is anything to go by they can be a nightmare, and an expensive one to fix, when the vehicle gets older! ...:

As long as the Disco EPB is cleaned and adjusted periodically, it causes no trouble at all. It's not an issue specific to the Disco or LR - it affects other brands too (especially with common parts usage).

The Doctor wrote:

I'm not talking about spec levels here just how cars have changed. I've had several new cars in recent years with on board computers and all sorts of other gizmos. My current Fiesta ST has various menus and sub-menus on the computer, heated part leather seats, various traction control settings and overboost for more power when going flat out etc.

Then the other day, I drove my sisters 2003 Ford Focus 1.6 LX. Fairly basic but all the essentials are there and it was weird how less felt like more. There was an unthinkable choice of warm or cold air from the vents by turning a dial without selecting specific temperatures. You had to go to great effort to turn the headlights on yourself by way of a dial. Then best of all, the engine is started using a key!

The original Focus was a great car and still doesn't look dated even now. I had a 1.6 petrol LX in 2004 then later owned a 1.8 TDCi Ghia. The diesel was more powerful and faster but I still preferred the silky smooth petrol.

Just got me thinking how cars have changed so much in such a short space of time. This electric power steering business just does not have the same feel as a hydraulic setup so that is a backward step IMO but does give an advantage when parking.

Anyone else own a more simple car or driven one recently? Any thoughts compared to modern cars?

This is something I've been banging on abouut for a while, how all this "tech", touchscreens and "de-cluttering" business make things more complex and take longer. A thing that really bugged me was MP3 CD track selection on a 13MY FL2 (via menus on the touchscreen) that I had on hire vs my 56-plate (via the simple button/dial control).

One great example is my recent purchase - an old P-reg Volvo 850 I was offered at the bargain pirce of £100, which I'm using as a run around until I can replace the clutch and DMF on my Passat. It has simple, easy to use buttons for everything, and the best bit, is it even has separate, real sliders for the bass, treble and fader. I think that's rather brilliant!

Once upon a time, you could jump into a car, and see instantly how the lighting, HVAC, ICE etc. all worked. Now you increasingly have to delve into an archive of hidden menus to access everything.

Bring back the humble button is what I say!  Freelander 2 2007 TD4 Manual HSE Tambora Flame
Discovery 3 2006 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver
Previously: Freelander 2 2007 TD4 Manual SE Santorini Black

When I drive my 1980 Escort RS2000 I start it, turn the MW/LW radio on, manually roll the window down a touch and concentrate on the driving.

I am with The Doctor and Labradorslave on this one. I have nothing against well engineered, quality modern technology applications in cars - the EPB on the D3 was a case study in the opposite- shoddy half baked rubbish that should never have got to a production vehicle. The EPB on Freely2, D4 etc is supposed to be much better and clearly some people like nothing better than high tech gadgets in their cars. The Freely2 EPB is however not quite that brill - a friend has found his a nightmare on the steep hills round here - it does not engage fast enough so the car rolls back a foot or so before it bothers to engage - only sorted after the usual brush off from the dealer - "oh that is normal they all do that" - and return trips to get the thing working properly. Problem with the parking brake - as opposed to fluff like infotainment, blue tooth connectivity etc is that the parking brake is mission critical.
Repair/ renewal costs for the EPB set up will be multiples higher than a conventional handbrake so in a few years time otherwise roadworthy vehicles will be written off due to MOT failures - the cost of replacing an EPB and one or two other electronic systems will easily come to more than the car is worth.
Depends I suppose if one prefers leased motoring where long term whole of life costs are someone else's problem. I would much rather have something engineered for a long low cost life.

Perhaps these technical advances are there to sell more cars, the initial owner won't be bothered as most will be reliable for 4-6 years or more, there won't be a reliability issue as if the owner scraps it then it is only a once failure. Scrap yards are already full of many vehicles that were scrapped due to maintenance costs, cambelt failure being the largest culprit, the days of rusted chassis and body failures are long gone. EPB may be one failure causing scrappage but the electronic dashboard may be a familiar failure due to no speedo. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

May I suggest BBC3 in a few minutes? Top gear design a car for the elderly!!

Disconev has it about right. All these very expensive cars with some of the real high tech stuff are great when new but what will happen when they get to around 7 years old ish when the folk that can afford to buy these cheaper cars won't be able to afford to take the car to a main dealer to put it on a diagnostic machine at £100 per hour +. A result of this will be as I guess manufacturers are hoping for is perfectly good cars bar one or two electrical faults will go to the scrap heap.
What will this mean I wonder for future classic cars?

Have to say the EPB is great on the Freelander as the standard hand brake that I had in my earlier FL2 was hopeless. (Past) Freelander 2 HSE 2010 MY In Rimini Red.
(Past) RR Evoque Dynamic Lux Si4 In Firenze Red.
(Past) RR Evouque Pure Tech in Barollo Black with bespoke Firenze Red colour coding.
(Present) Freelander Metropolis 2015 MY In Santorini Black with Ivory Premium Leather.