And it's only going to get worse for those of us who want a 'proper' Land Rover. Seems (as we've long expected) that the D5 will be little more than a re-bodied RRS

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1031191...-spy-shots

And the new Defender will simply be more of the same

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic32352-180.html
(see particularly post by acuss01.)

As one participant in the defender2 thread put it "Land rovers are now mummy buses and for men who blow dry their hair."!

With LR's continuing reliability issues, globally disappointing reaction to the DS, government investigations in China and falling sales it's surely time for some heads to roll at LR - or at least to be packed off to Audi!

I'm still waiting for this different design language, which separates the ranges. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Well the roof line is high, the hatch seems to be of a practical shape for loading the big bits and stowing big dogs, aesthetics are personal, the main thing for an LR is a practical lugger that will continue to keep going when all else have failed, whether snow, ice, flood or mud, the problem is LR failed to grasp that with the DS my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Granted it retains some of the practicalities of the current Disco which is a bonus. Perhaps in the flesh it will look the part. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

I honestly struggle these days to tell the newer models apart, until I see the lettering.

RogB wrote:

i think its been mentioned here before about FL2 prices compared to DS prices. (don't have time at work to search thoroughly)

When the FL2 was introduced its starting price was (for example) 22k OTR. The bottom priced DS is currently around 30k (open to correction but just using rough figures as examples)

When you factor in the rate of inflation, increased production costs etc etc etc. then under current money the entry FL2 would also be around 30k OTR.

So the latest entry level DS is priced (comparatively) the same as the entry level FL2 was when it was first introduced.

LR's problem is in the fact that many other manufacturers offer very good equivalents for a lot less money than a DS now, BUT..... will they hold their value as well as a LR product ? does a Hyundai have the same badge kudos as a LR ?

LR claim to be a competitive manufacturer of 4x4 vehicles but they clearly aren't.

they are trying to be a luxury market 4x4 in a family market 4x4 sector. They need to stop adding wade assist, incline assist, blind spot assist, etc etc etc and look at what the cars currently do (i.e. spend 99.9% of the time on road in most cases) and design and price their cars accordingly in order to compete.
They should really be entering the market at the low 20k area in order to keep sales up with the competition. and make the cars less complex and more reliable.

all this is just my personal laymans opinion of course,

Not sure I agree with that, keep being told that inflation is in negative figures & I haven't had a pay rise above 1% since 2007, I won't be able to afford a 30 grand plus DS.

pab wrote:

And it's only going to get worse for those of us who want a 'proper' Land Rover. Seems (as we've long expected) that the D5 will be little more than a re-bodied RRS

I don't think the chassis is the problem, though it seems as LR will have 2 chassis or underpinning designs, one aluminium and the other steel , the alloy will be for the larger vehicles and the steel for the smaller vehicles and probably stretched for the Defender replacement.
The complaints are generally against an apparent trend of LR vehicles being street cred for the town uses and being bland with a badge. The latest Shogun is now beginning to look more like a LR than the DS which nice as it is is not a practical car as a LR but OK as stretched Ewok.
Will LR lose sales as they enter the bland market, many buy a LR for what it is, when it is not seen as a LR product will sales drop? Those that pose in an LR want to be seen in one, not just have a badge, Rover didn't get any sales improvement by sticking a Rover badge on a Honda or Austin, infact it went bust.
The original Discovery evolved from nothing it was a new project but the chassis evolved from the Series 3 LR It would be truer to say the Defender chassis evolved from the Disco due to suspension changes
The RRS evolved from the D3 with a new dress my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Quote:

... if LR can use and adapt a current chassis it will make the product cheaper.

I believe the new Disco will be based on the D7u platform which is what the FFRR and RRS2 is based on, so there is your first expense, then technology that nobody really wants is your next big expense. There is rumours of a £7k price hike over the current model, if true then this will be my last LR. The biggest issue is weight, the current Disco is a heavy beast so I expect a fair bit of weight loss. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

If weight is the main issue D5 should be much lighter. Aluminium monocoque will be much lighter than steel chassis plus steel monocoque on D4 T5 platform. However that has to cost!!
Add in extra structure for modern crash rules may also add to weight.
John FL2 11 S Black 😂
Gone Disco2 TD5 GS

Though the alloy monocoque is more expensive than a steel one the difference is not that great once the development costs have been discounted, JLR have been producing alloy monocoques since 2004 with the last of the old XJ saloons and continue to the present the FFRR being the first of the alloy LR derived models. The price of a RR or LR is not so much based on the manufacturing costs, but how much will the market stand and how much is put aside per model for customer service i.e 50% contribution to a 2007 model differential repair. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Dartman the one wrote:

The original Discovery evolved from nothing it was a new project but the chassis evolved from the Series 3 LR It would be truer to say the Defender chassis evolved from the Disco due to suspension changes
The RRS evolved from the D3 with a new dress

I bow to your superior knowledge regarding the Disco 200 however the Series 3 chassis though leaf sprung must have had a lot in common with the Defender as a guy I knew put a series 3 body on a 110 chassis. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

I like the FL2 its my second one ,and probably my last ,i had the same thing with my second Jag 2.2 6 speed xtype ,they stoped making them ,now they do this again ,i would never have bought one if i was better informed,idont want a seven seater car i dont want an evoke ,i wanted another Freelander ,next year ,but it wont happen ,very disappointed wthe Jaguar Landrover 👹👹👹