None of this mattered with the old system, though, as and existing tax would simply remain with the car and if new tax was required the system would just check that someone had insurance on the vehicle.

The new system changes that, as any existing tax is cancelled at the time of transfer of registered keeper, and the new keeper is required to take out new tax even if the vehicle was previously taxed. Before changes of keeper were irrelevant, now they're not.

Wizking's note "You can tax the vehicle using the New Keeper Supplement (V5C/2)" gives a hint as to how this might work via the automated system. I've checked my V5 and the reference number of the new keeper supplement is different from the reference number of the document itself (same number, but preceded by a '5' in my case). So by entering this number you tell the system not only the identity of the vehicle, but also that it is in the process of being transferred. The system won't know the identity of the new keeper until the V5 is received, but it will know to cancel the old tax, issue new tax, and look out for a V5 return in the post.

There would still seem to be a problem though. If MID isn't updated in real time (as suggested by messages above) the only insurance listed on the system is likely to be that of the old keeper, which it is no longer appropriate to take into account. The system should, therefore, look for a new insurance - and it may not find it.

You can bet there will be problems in practice, and maybe as suggested drive away on the day may not be practical, unless you fancy risking it on the old tax.

So I live in rural Dorset with no motorways, I never go on major roads and never see a police car. Why don't I just do a permanent sorn?

You'd probably get away with it for some time, but one day almost inevitably you'd come across an automated ANPR camera somewhere. They're everywhere these days, and whereas at the moment the private systems (such as car parks) probably aren't talking to Big Brother one can easily envisage that happening if BB offers them cash for numbers, or even makes it a legal requirement.

I, too, live in a rural area and even here I come across many cameras with some kind of ANPR - the supermarket car parks in the local market town use them (even though they're free parking!) to enforce time limits. They're on petrol statiion to catch drive-aways, etc. And there's talk of mounting them on traffic wardens, beat coppers, police cars, etc, etc.

Sooner or later you'd get caught!

I think we're all guilty of over thinking this.

I don't see much of a difference between old and new system.

Yes - tax can no longer be transferred when a vehicle is sold. But that wasn't always the case anyway. Just because a vehicle you are about to buy has some tax on it on the forecourt, doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get the benefit of it unless you negotiate that into the deal.

When you tax your car online now (under the old system), all it is checking is to see whether there is valid insurance for that vehicle - not WHO has the insurance......just that insurance exists.

This will be no different under the new system (I would guess). You buy a car off a private seller, and you tax it immediately because he has insurance in force. He then tells DVLA that he's sold it, and he gets a refund of any unused tax.

It's absolutely correct that the timing of the sale is critical - buy the car at the wrong point in the month and DVLA will effectively get two lots of tax for the same month. I can, therefore, see peaks and troughs in private car sales because of this.

I think the media is whipping this up into a bit of a frenzy, and really it's going to make only a little bit of difference practically.

smile please (make sure you get my good side .!!
( in case of petrol stations )  Wales
Were the mud is thicker, and the ruts are deeper.
(And we have the water to wash it off, and more on the way..! )
Sd4 and chrome Ar*e piece, Auto box for best fun
09 Xs Gone
12 xs Gone
HSE with Leather seats and 4 years warrenty.. staying for now !

dorsetfreelander wrote:

So I live in rural Dorset with no motorways, I never go on major roads and never see a police car. Why don't I just do a permanent sorn?

The media are creating a frenzy, that's about all they do really.

The real reason, and some have alluded to this, is that this will be the thin end of the wedge.
Look at motorways and the amount of 'investment' into converting them to 'Smart Motorways' until quite recently there was no money, all gone, purse empty and we will have to suffer potholes. All of a sudden motorways everywhere are full of cones and signs 'upgrading to Smart Motorway'. It's not for our benefit, there will be a big tax prize at the end of it in the form of road charging, co2/km and all that or maybe I'm just being cynical?

I found the answers to most of our questions in the transcript of a webchat with the DVLA:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syst...170914.pdf

Here are a few snippets:

Quote:

The new keepers supplement reference number will let DVLA know it is a new keeper.

The new keeper supplement must be used to tax the vehicle. This will ensure that the new
keepers tax is not refunded. The V5C change of keeper notification will trigger a refund of
any remaining months tax to the previous registered keeper

We are developing an online service to allow change of keeper online and this will start to roll out
before the end of the year but will not be there for the 1st October.

The onus is on the new keeper/driver of the vehicle to ensure it is taxed before they drive
away.

Q: If we tax a vehicle online how do DVLA know if the vehicle has an Mot and is insured?
A: The vehicle's MOT is checked electronically. Due to changes in legislation, insurance no
longer needs to be checked at the point of licensing other than for vehicles registered in
Northern Ireland.

Q: Are there plans to introduce more fixed ANPR cameras across the country?
A: The number of ANPR cameras has increased each year and will continue to do so.

Good find.

Seems like that pretty much buttons it all up.....

Damn, was hoping to drag it out for a few more pages

taztastic wrote:

.
The tax disc has disappeared so what will be next, road charging per use?

At least the A14 has been rejected as the next Toll Road, the M6 Toll suffers massive losses year after year, it's just not worth using, especially for commercial vehicles £11 For anything bigger than a car, but you get 25p off if you have a Tag, but if the M6 is clear there's no gain but £11 saved.

Regarding Pab's post and the penultimate Q&A, IIRC when I renewed my wife's car tax online, it mentioned a check on the MOT and but not insurance. Whereas in the past it mentioned both as prerequisite to being able to tax it. That did surprise me at the time.

Not sure how one can solve the issue of when to purchase or sell in a month. On any day you are always part in to a month, so the seller loses that month of tax in the refund and the buyer always has to pay from the start of the same month. Nice earner for the government as the car is being taxed twice in that month. Or have I missed something?

It is just like car parks that introduced number plates on tickets for pay and display to stop someone passing the unused time on a ticket to someone else - despite the space being paid for and it not really mattering which car is occupying it, they introduce a system to ensure they gain revenue twice for the same space on busy days. 2016 BMW X3 30d SE in red
MY2013 SD4 XS Firenze Red, 19" 10 spoke contrast paint wheels, Signature Strips, Grand Black Lacquer trim, Cold Climate Pack - gone!
2007 TD4 S Stornoway Grey - gone!

Tax disc removed in readiness for tomorrow - I feel strangely liberated!!

Me too just out of devilment