There are some pretty horrific and graphic immediate aftermath videos on the 'net so I think any 'evidence' has well and truly been compromised. Past: FL2 TD4 HSE Auto
Evoque SD4 Dynamic Lux Auto
Present: Audi A3 S Line.

Those where the ones RT were running hence my disgust.

Theres lots of things at work here - much of it Dr has picked up on but there are things like 'how did that conversation get on the net within a couple of hours', 'how was the exact BUK carrier spotted exiting the area'.

Many more have been raised on that ATS site... I also found the UN speech by the USA interesting.

People may try and make some thing of this been more than it looks ( ie the 5 planned wars by the US or even it been a red flag op to hide Israel kicking off ) how ever i believe that military kit was in the hands of some one who could not use it properly made a massive mistake.

How and why they had it is another matter.

I hope that this incident will give people pause for thought.

T Terran



'The' Car For The Modern Day UK Roads ( ie all the pot holes )

'A Freelander that leaks oil is just marking its territory' - Wise words

Now a member of the FL2 'Silly Bill' Club

Putin is not like old style Soviet Union, he is Soviet Union, he was bought up in that era, progressed up the KGB ladder to very near the top, jumped ship at the opportune moment and and by fair means and foul made his way to the top of the pile to form his democracy. He is a communist in all but name and acts as the old guard, his aim is the same as communism, that is that Russia is to be the new world number one. Forget about the blustering boycotting of the gas, the country can't afford not to sell it, he knows it, He is using gas like the threat of nuclear war, but he knows Russia could not dominate under a communist system of inward investment and expenditure as there was no incentive for the population, he can't go back, he knows it, but will continue to bluster. Oil and gas are his weapons now, but if he can't sell them then Russia will again fail. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Oil and gas are not his (Putin's) weapon - military might and the fearless use of it is his preferred ace in the pack. The hawks in the Kremlin have tactically skilfully manoeuvred him into the Crimea with the end game plan of having Moscow's candidate sitting in the presidential chair in Kiev. The annexation of Eastern Ukraine is just another play of their hand.

The doves in the Kremlin do not seek this confrontation - Prime Minster Medvedev understands that commercial integration with the west is the future and the business oligarchs want that. They have seen and admired the Chinese format that has outpaced the post Soviet model. Unfortunately they, the free marketeers, are in the retreat at the moment after their meteoric rise under Yeltsin.

But back to the on-the-ground situation.

After days of denial media footage is now in the open showing the removal from site of the black boxes, and, new transcripts of telephone intercepts relay conversations between local pro Russian militia leaders stating that they have received orders from Moscow to "hide" them from the OSCE crash inspectors.

Days on from the shooting down of the flight it is abundantly clear which team fired the missiles, who supplied the weapon system, which administration desires a cover-up and above all - that the combination of those involved have not to date had the basic human dignity to afford to the dead and the bereaved a notion of respect and allow the corpse to be returned promptly to their kith n kin.

A disgraceful humanitarian outrage that should under no circumstances be allowed to pass without a realignment of relationships between all those nations whose citizens have perished in this terrorist act and the Russian administration lead by Vladimir Putin.

Europe can survive without Russian oil and gas. Australia can cancel the export of minerals, France can cancel the supply of navel landing vessels to Russian, Germany can cancel the banking credits offered to Moscow, the UK can terminate Russia's favourable trading nation status, the Netherlands can refuse to handle Russian cargo through Europe's largest container port Rotterdam, and list goes on. And collectively the EU could implement those two key sanctions I outlined in my last posting. The time for diplomatic chit chat is over. Putin needs to be hit in his Pocket tomorrow not next month or next year. Now.

Finally as individuals you can all take Russia off your holiday list, cancel any bookings you have, and do not attend the 2018 World Cup. Every £ € ¥ $ etc not spent on mother Russia will drive the message home to Putin and his hawks.

Very well said athelstan.

^ Agreed LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Putins military might should be tempered by NATO, but NATO seems to have other interests since the communist regime collapsed, maybe time to look at Russia again. my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

Well after months of denial by Putin's Polit Bureau Puppets the on-the-battlefield facts speak louder than their words: Russia has invaded Eastern Ukraine in force. Body bags are being sent back to Russian mothers whose sons have died on "training" exercises.

Time to put a complete trade and travel embargo on Russia and Russians.
Time for the UN Security Council to condemn Russia.
Time for FIFA to ban Russian teams in European Competitions.
Time for all professional sporting associations to ban Russian teams from any competitions in their sports.
Time for Europeans to cancel their holidays to Russian destinations.
Time for EU to publically denounce Putin as the defacto No1 Fascist of modern Europe.
Time to stop debating what to do.
Time to give Ukraine all the economic and military support it needs - now - not after Putin annexes a corridor all the way from the Crimea to mother Russia.
Time for Merkel to red card Putin.
Time for Obama to shut up or put up - Putin is a bigger more immediate threat to peace and security in Europe than ISIS.

Unless Putin is stopped - his next target maybe your backyard.

Very true, and yet there are still those who think Trident is redundant, the nuclear deterrent and the will to use it, it will never be redundant my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.