Hi npinks

the additives you listed from your search are administered to prevent the partial solidification of the diesel at very low temperatures.

In the olden days we used paraffine added to the diesel. This however meant that a lubricity additive had to be mixed in (2sO) to maintain the proper lubrication of pump and injectors (mechanical diesel pump such as Bosch inline or VE44 type pumps).

On the old style diesel pump systems, there is however another method preventing this problem and that is having a heating coil between the filter holder and the diesel filter. The diesel is then warmed up, before it enters the diesel pump.

This works very well too.

In continental Europe they sell diesel fuel in winter, which is suitable for down to -15 Degs, depending in which region it is sold (temperature dependant).

2sO will improve cold start behaviour of the old style and modern CRD diesel engine. This manifests itself by easier starting and the absence of the typical diesel clatter. There is also a marked absence of smoke during cold starts.

I operate both the D1 300tdi and the D3 TDV6 in temperature extremes of up to 48Degs C (Messina) in summer and down to -15Degs in winter (Lesotho, Free State and north-eastern Cape bordering Lesotho).

We are using the 2sO all year round with great results. To give an example, on the TDV6 injector variance is between 0.98% and 1.12% (Hawkeye) for all 6 injectors and has been steady like that for the last 1.5 years (186'000km) With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Thanks DG thought YF claim that 2SO was approved on the Merc G Class was too good to be true, even a year on they still haven't published the proof that she said they were giving

There are many G-Mercs here in SA running on the Muti.

They are part now of the Mercedes Club SA and sometimes I join them in their offroad adventures with my D1. Especially on the older 240GD and 300GD the guys like the absence of excessive smoke and ear shattering diesel clatter during the morning starts.
 With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

i'm sure what you say is true, unlike YF claim that the use of 2so is approved in Merc G Glass manual, even a year on there is still no sign of it and i doubt there ever will

Hi npinks

it is an open secret, that the "Versuchsabteilung" of MB makes use of 2sO for their endurance testing.

As you can well imagine, there is also another side to this equation, and that is the pressure from the P&A side to sell parts. So a manufacturer would be hard pressed to openly advocate a product, that would effectively reduce their diesel injection related parts sales by somewhere around 50% or even more.

See it in the same light as the removal of cat's and EGR's. The manufacturers don't like it but all and sundry know, that it improves the riability of the LR vehicles (out of warranty) by a substantial margin.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Last edited by DiscoGeorge on 20th Nov 2012 1:09 pm. Edited 1 time in total

DiscoGeorge wrote:

it is an open secret, that the "Versuchsabteilung" of MB makes use of 2sO for their endurance testing.

As you can well imagine, there is also another side to this equation, and that is the pressure from the P&A side to sell parts. So a manufacturer would be hard pressed to openly advocate a product, that would effectively reduce their diesel injection related parts sales by somewhere aroung 50% or even more.

As Mercedes do not manufacture these parts themselves ,Im sure they would prefer to sell a reliable car than rely on marking up bought in parts to make a slight profit and have their reputation repeatedly sullied.
People do not forget a car which bought them big repair bills and (with the strange exception of LR owners ) tend to move to a different make of vehicle. At work
At home

"I can't always believe facts I read on the web" - Charles Dickens

winner by default of the tractor vs caravan race

Hi chicken george

add to that the fact that only a small minority of luxury new car owners would be willing to add a bottle of 2sO with every tank filling. It is only in environments such as offroad enthusiasts, classic car club members etc, that such a practice will find a following.

The benefits however far outweigh the effort required.

And that is why I am a religious follower of the 2sO trick!  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

WELL WELL WELL

On thursday I had to take my wife's Fiesta 1.6 TDCi in for an oil leak, (very very small) as the sump seal had started to leak. Well its 5 years old now and the sump had to be removed.
In the afternoon I had a call from the garage to say all done and they had taken some pictures ( hadn't mentioned running on 2 stroke oil ) as they had never ever seen such a clean engine !
I am yet to see the pictures and have asked them to e-mail me the pics , the fitter said it was spotless, there was nothing to even wipe out and the gauze strainer was spotless. Infact he went on to say that when he refilled the engine with oil it was so clean he was having difficulty reading the dipstick.
Now the oil does stay very clean for long periods ! so it it because I always run on BP diesel and leave the supermarket stuff alone ? or is it the 2 stroke oil I add as I have always done on this car ?
once the garage send me the pictures I will post but it must of been clean for the garage to be that impressed for them to take the trouble to take pictures & ring me up to tell me !

No black film or tarnish internally for 5 years 50K motoring. Garage said exceptionally clean.

Click image to enlarge

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Unnecessary quote removed

Hi oldgeezer

nice to hear that it is working for you as well. Please post those pics!

It is very difficult for the not so technically inclined to fathom out why using 2sO is such a clever idea.

Apart from the extra lubricity benefits, one of the main criteria for using 2sO is its sterling ability to remove carbon deposits from the engine, which drastically reduces the gunk being deposited in the sump. It also greatly reduces the risk of sticky rings and valves.

And for those of you who run FL2's with DPF's fitted, the burn free cycle intervals are extended well beyond 1000km (or 600mls).

To maximize all the above benefits, a mineral or part-synthetic 2sO conforming to JASO-FC should be used. JASO-FD 2sO's are not suitable for CRD diesels with DPF's. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Hi Disco George

I have now added a pic to my findings earlier.
The Garages aid they have never seen a 5 year old diesel engine without any tarnish or combustion deposits inside an engine before !

Please appreciate the garage just took a photo out of their own interest as it was so clean, they didn't know,neither had they ever heard of running a diesel with TSO in the fuel tank but after what they have seen no doubt they will try it.
I am hoping they have a photo of the sump pan as well but he said it didnt need a wash or wipe out, the fitter discribed it as spotless.

Click image to enlarge

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Hi Oldgeezer

just confirms, what yamahafan who was first to advocate the use of 2sO on this forum and others including myself have been advocating for years.

The inside of my 300Tdi looks similar. And that is an old style mechanical injection diesel engine  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

And this is a typical example, of what those engines run on 2sO look like from the top end:

This specific piston is from a 2.7 PSA TDV6 (Disco3). Picture taken at Landyworx in Johannesburg.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

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Thanks for the picture "oldgeezer"
I used 2SO in my old FL2, and have done the same with my new one from the day I got it. If it keeps it looking as good as your picture I will be a very happy man.

Hi guys, just had to sign up once I'd read this whole thread. I find all the posts by DiscoGeorge and Yamaha-fan perfectly convincing.

Two stroke oil is a thinnish, clean burning oil with superb lubricating properties so I cannot honestly see what could harm an engine by adding it to the fuel at 0.5%. I drive a 2009 Nissan Micra with the Renault 1.5 dCi 86 engine (with 19,000 miles on the clock) and have just added 200ml of Shell semisynth, JASO FC standard, 2 stroke to a full tank of diesel (from empty).

The drive home was 15 miles so the engine is definitely ingesting the 'new' fuel. The car didn't explode or judder to a halt and no warning lights have come on either . If anything, the car feels torquier ie gear changes felt a lot more like a petrol engine than a diesel - I'll keep you all updated as I monitor fuel consumption with a spreadsheet...

Hi Guy

thanks for the cudos. Yes some of us actually do know what we write about.

I would like you to pay particular attention to the change in cold start behaviour and the lack of diesel clatter when starting from very cold i.e. -5 Deg or lower.

Please keep us posted!  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff