Hi Guys,

My TD4 (Auto SE) and I went for a quick off-road excursion this afternoon at a venue more suited to quads. Anyway, I managed to do most of the obstacles there, at least most of the ones where I could fit the Landy into as some of them were way to narrow.

There were two obstacles though that frustrated me. Both are reasonably steep inclines, with some loose gravel (but not excessive). But I just could not get the Landy to clear them (altough it was obvious that other vehicles have managed to clear them previously).
On the one I would make it up the incline about half way at which point I'd get wheelspin and then could make no further progress. On the other incline I could not get the Landy to even start climbing as it would just wheelspin and not move an inch.

With DSC off (as I understand is recommended) I tried the M/G/S program as well as Sand. Eventually I revved the Landy to about 2750 rpm but with no success: Wheelspin but no climbing ! I could feel the traction control kicking in every now and then, but the Landy would not climb ?

Does anybody have similar experiences that they can relate ?
How should I approach the obstacles ?
Wrong program maybe ?
Did I over ref ?
Any tips ?

Regards
OD

deflate tyres a bit for off-roading

I sure somebody will be along soon who is full of knowledge for your conditions

Did you try a higher speed moving approach to maybe get a little momentum going first? (not sure if its the right thing to do)

Though i supposes not all roads can be beaten?

Out of interest how steep was the incline? Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Tyres
My tyres are normally inflated to about 2 bar, but I surely will try deflating them. I guess that means it's time to get a compressor ...

Incline
Difficult to say, but it must be very close to the approach angle of the FL2 as I just-just managed to go onto the inclines without scraping at the front. Thus about 30 degrees, but probably around 25.

First of all at this situation HDC is recomended off as you said also.
To have a chance to climb steep inclines either u must gain suficient speed before the slope you are about to climb (with a danger of damaging your car underneuith or in front as u pointed) either you must aproach the incline slowly and try to maintain as litle as possible RPMS so the wheel spin wont apear (you have to "play" with the gass pedal cause in this case either u'll get stuck due to weel spin or by insuficient power to continue climbing). To conclude if you expect better performance off-road, a set of offroad tyres is essential and don't ever forget our car is an SUV! The miss of low-range is a great weekness that TR,tyres etc cannot replace!
This advice is for your-our safety also cause sometimes we tend to have greater expectations than those tha are deliverd resulting in dangerous situations (been there after getting stuck in the middle of a hill and was trying to climb down on revese "there was no other way" my FL2 started turning almost verticaly with the danger of a roll-over. )

With a vehicle like F/L2 I would only advice lowering tyre pressure as a get me out of the clag resort. Never drive into a situation with lower tp when you might need it to get out, it is of only marginal assistance. You guys with low aspect tyres never do it, your sidewalls are oh so vulnerable, style over substance. still pining for my 3dr, no removeable hardtop, no drop glass tailgate, no roof rack, no pockets everywhere to stow all that man kit

Quote:

You guys with low aspect tyres never do it, your sidewalls are oh so vulnerable, style over substance.

overdose. I purchased a copy of THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO OFF ROAD DRIVING by Landrover Experience from:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000BK6G84/ref=rntl_also_prch

They use several different vehicles in different types of terrain. The FL2 was not out when this dvd was made.
Well worth buying.
I hope you can get it in South Africa.

waaxh03

Hi overdose

I'm no expert in this, but I've done a little, so hopefully I can give some adivse

Firstly there is the terrain response. the 3 differetn modes ( I wouldn't class standard as a mode, more like the off setting)

Grass/Gravel/Snow: this is for a surface with a loose top surface, but with a solid base, as it says, like grass or gravel. From what I understand, this is designed to kick the traction control in as quickly as possible, as you want as little wheelspin as possible.

Mud/Ruts: this is for a surface the doesn't have the solid base, so any gloopy wet mud. with this kind of surface you want the wheels to spin a little, but not too much, this way you can keep momentum going. Not sure of the scientific reasons why a little wheelspin is good in mud, but it seems to work.

Sand: This is designed, as it says, for sand. with sand you need to keep your momentum up, and hope this will keep you going over the softer bits. if the car stops in soft sand, spinning the wheels will just dig you in, but whilst you are moving a little spin is a good thing, just keep momentum up.

I guess if you had a loose surface then the grass gravel snow would be the setting to use, to keep wheel spin to a minimum, to allow the car to get maximum grip.

You also have 4 other tools to help you HDC, GRC, DSC and TC. I'll try to give a quick explanation, but might not get it perfect.

HDC - Hill descent control, this slows the car down when going down hill, by braking each wheel independently, basicly it is what Land Rover had to design to save them from fitting a low range box to teh first freelander.

GRC - Gradient Release Control, this is what holds the brakes on, if you fail a hill climb, to allow you to get started again, with needing 3 legs, and 3 arms, to keep the car under proper control. I can't say I've got it working on my car yet, or that many dealers seem to know what it even is yet, but then again it's a bit of a sore point with me and my dealer.

DSC - dynamic stability control, this is what stops you spinning the car round if going round a corner too quick, or stops you doign tale slides in a rear wheel drive car. useful for driving on ice and wet grass to keep the car from spinning round and round, if you try to corner too tight.

TC - traction control, this is the beauty that allows us to tackle more off road terrain than most 4x4s, especially little ones. this will let the car stop spinning a wheel if one loses traction.

Now for the bit of info I've been given on a couple of offroad days. the differentials in a car are lazy, they will always try to send the power down the easiest route. in a 4 wheel drive car, with a centre diff and a diff on each axle, if one wheel loses grip, the car will send all the power to the wheel, and it will spin freely. on the old land rovers, you had a centre diff lock, this allowed you to ensure that whatever happened you could ensure that 50% of the power will go to the front and 50% to the rear, so if one wheel lost traction, you would keep going. When they built the freelanders ( and possibly on the discos and RRs before it) they had to come up with a better way to deal with this problem. What the TC does is to apply brakes to the wheels that loose traction, and by doing so force the power back to the wheels which still have grip, as these then have more grip (it is a bit more compicated than this, as it pulses the brakes, so if traction is gained again, the wheel hasn't got the brake fully on). On a freelander with TC, you could actually drive th car with one wheel on the ground (if you could balance it) as the other three wheels would apply the brakes, and the path of least resistance becomes the one wheel on the ground.

In order for the TC to work, it has to be able to sense that one wheel is spinning quicker thatn the others, and quicker that the speed of the vehicles (someting landrover seemed to have mastered, and beeting others at in my opinion). The clever bit on the Land Rovers fitted with Terrain Response is that the quickness tha the TC responds in changes depending upon the program chosen, and helpfully the are in the right order on the dial, so GGC is very quick to respond, MR is slightly slower to allow a bit of spin, and Sand is a lot slower to allow a lot of wheel spin.

When you spoke about switching DSC off, this wouldn't affect the car in this situation. This would only work if the car is sensing lateral G force when it shouldn't. So it wouldn't come into affect when climbing a hill

Now then, the hill you where climbing, if this was a hill of about 25% and with a gravely surface, then it should be possible to climb, but you'd need to approche it right. I would switch it to GGS, to allow as little whel spin as possible. I would switch HDC on, but only so the GRC would be active in case you failed and stopped half way up.

You then need to approch the hill at the correct speed. What the correct speed is something I don't think any one can tell you, but is something you kinda learn. You need to be at a speed where you won't hit the front of the car on the approch to the hill, and so you aren't driving too quickly and causing damage to the ground. But you need to have sufficient momentum and speed to get you moving up the hill and to keep moving.

You also need to have a bit of speed to allow the TC to work, as far as I'm aware, it doesn't kick in to well if your in first and below about 1250 revs, as the computer can't pick up the speed difference between wheels and car speed

When you start driving, you will probably have the accelerator pedal about a quarter of the way down, as you then head up the hill you will need to give the pedal more of a push, to help the car moving up against gravity, but make sure you keep it smooth. On gravel, if you can do it without spinning the wheels at all, then that would be perfect, but you will probably need to balance the throttle between allowing a little wheel spin, and keeping up momentum. as you reach the top you then gradualy come off the throttle, so you don't fly off the top.

I guess you already know when you've got it wrong, as you spin lots, and lose all momentum and start to slide backwards. But all I can say is the first time to get up a difficult hill, you get such a thrill you want to drive it again and again, or is that just me.

Hope this helps you, if only a little bit, and doesn't complicate things too much.

AndI think with this post I must have blown my word budget for the month, sorry to everyone about that

Rich

Rich,
I take my hat off to you, Sir.
Think i'll print that for future reference. Out with the old (2007 SE)
In with the new (2012 Dynamic with everything). Now also gone.

Or just put your foot down and drive like a nutter!

I guess the first lesson in off road driving is knowing where your front wheels are and aiming them at the easiest part of the track . obviously you cant see them so this is something that comes with practice.
Some of the most tricky off roading I have done is driving down muddy tracks used by tractors. the axle width being much wider on the tractor so your 4x4 wheels dont sit in the ruts , more like half way up the rut sides,
This is where you really must know the axle width you have or you will just slip into the ruts side ways or diagonally. If you do get across the ruts diagonally the car will travel along the track almost side ways and it is not easy to get straight again.

This was in defenders not my fl1 that would have grounded out and ripped off its exhaust.

My experience with off-roading in the FL2 has tought me a few things

Don't turn DSC off unless you are travelling on a very soft surface such as sand. Even then if DSC is not cutting the engine revs leave it on. This helps you maintain forward direction. I've found on very soft sand (Bribe Island in Australia) that the revs died down with DSC on whereas with it off I could keep the revs up and keep moving.

Power - keep it on. When you get wheelspin don't back off the throttle until its obvious that your moment has stopped or you begin to slide sideways. I've found that you need to give the car a chance to "do it thing" and work out which wheel(s) have the best grip.

Tyre pressure - letting your tyres down from the mid 30s to low to mid 20PSI can make a huge difference. All the trips I've done I've only got into trouble by not letting the tyres down. I don't buy the argument that the sidewalls are at risk of punctures because you don't let the pressure down so far that they ballon out all that far. [/list] 2007 TD4 SE

Hi Overdose,
I notice your FL2 is automatic. Are you using the command shift option on the gear box for offroading? If not I suggest you try this first along with the other tips from the forum members.

waaxh03 wrote:

overdose. I purchased a copy of THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO OFF ROAD DRIVING by Landrover Experience from:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000BK6G84/ref=rntl_also_prch

They use several different vehicles in different types of terrain. The FL2 was not out when this dvd was made.
Well worth buying.
I hope you can get it in South Africa.

waaxh03

I know where you can get it a lot cheaper than that if you're interested.......

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic19217.html


EDIT: Didn't get in quick enough - sold  "CY from DISCO3"

Discovery 3 TDV6 SE

saw this vid on the web - is this in oz?
any comments on the off roading technique?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UlBZYjE2j8#