Friday night saw temperatures at -15° C ~ 8 miles away (Holbeach -16° C) which was the coldest recorded place in the UK.

Car started ok, after the delay from the glow heaters, with some slow cranking. Then the fun started. I got 1/2 mile down the road and got the dreaded "Reduced Engine Performance" warning and sure enough, it was true to it's word. Did what I had to do (which was take some lovely snow pictures near home [1 mile], but down lanes with a 4x4 necessity ) and came home, or tried to. REP changed to No performance at all

Long story short, Landrover assistance sorted some cover and the AA guy said this is the second TD4 he's dealt with today - exactly the same problem - Gelled diesel. I'm puzzled by this as I always use Shell fuel that has a claimed usage down to -20° C The battery was checked which returned a figure of 706AH. Also the alternator was delivering a 16A charge on tickover.

Is there a design fault here? Can't believe a vehicle of this ilk has not been 'ruggidised' to withstand these sort of temperatures. Or are Shell telling porkies and (covertly) increasing the 'bio' content of their fuels?

I'm now afeared to go anywhere if the temperatures drops to minus figures now!  Freelander 1 TD4 HSE - gone, 2 weeks after the Cat.Converter!
Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto MY08 - Santorini black

Interesting. Lowest temp here was -10C and no problems but last winter saw -18C here and I never had any trouble then.
I use V-Power diesel in mine and posted a topic last year asking if there are any additives in V-Power which perform better than normal fuel in winter. Don't think there was a conclusive answer. LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

That's what the AA guy suggested - I use a premium fuel... not checked but V-Power is supposedly "good to go" down to -30°C

I suppose I'm right out on the edge of the Fens so the windchill might have reduced the temperature even lower than what I'd recorded. (Blimey - it's cold in Galifrey!) Freelander 1 TD4 HSE - gone, 2 weeks after the Cat.Converter!
Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto MY08 - Santorini black

I' like to correct a common mis-understanding...

Bits of metal, plastic and liquids do not understand 'windchill'. If the thermometer reads -15°C, then ALL parts of the car will be at -15°C if left at that for a few hours no matter how fast the wind is blowing.

The speed of the wind only plays a part on the engine temperature when the engine is running. Similarly, the speed that you drive at will affect the engine temperature. The actual wind speed only plays a part in chilling something if that something is at a higher temperature than the ambient temperture.

Typically, windchill, as used in weather forecasts and common parlance, is experienced by living things such as you and I.

RBaron wrote:

I' like to correct a common mis-understanding...

Bits of metal, plastic and liquids do not understand 'windchill'. If the thermometer reads -15°C, then ALL parts of the car will be at -15°C if left at that for a few hours no matter how fast the wind is blowing.

The speed of the wind only plays a part on the engine temperature when the engine is running. Similarly, the speed that you drive at will affect the engine temperature. The actual wind speed only plays a part in chilling something if that something is at a higher temperature than the ambient temperture.

Typically, windchill, as used in weather forecasts and common parlance, is experienced by living things such as you and I.

Ive always used supermarket fuel, last year the temp went down to - 15 and had no problems at all. The engine started after a few seconds of the heater plugs being on, the engine was a little rough to start but once warmed up all ok.

I thought I read something about this on another forum some time ago. The information below was provided to someone from Texaco, and makes interesting reading on the subject of 'standards'. The info was dated 2005, and was featured on a motorhome forum website http://www.motorhomefacts.com

We manufacture automotive diesel fuel to meet European requirements known as EN590. This specification is adopted by British Standards and a group of fuel experts (of which I am a member) sit and agree what is known as the National Annex, I can only describe this part as… the fuel needed to work in say a Scottish winter is different to that required for Southern Spain… we have some freedom within EN590 to choose cold temperature performance and winter start dates suitable for our geographic location.

This is by way of explanation to your specific questions; the formulation ex refinery, winter vs summer quality does change, as we have to meet the tighter cold temperature (winter) performance requirement as defined in the National Annex in BSEN590.

Winter for road diesel quality is currently defined as operating from the 15th November through to the 15th March and product sold during this period has to meet a cold flow test, known as the CFPP test, at a maximum temperature of -15C, compare this with the summer specification of -5C.

Uk fuel is only rated to -15 and everywhere else in Europe -20

Just need to get a little heater around the tank or keep it in a garage

I also had the same problem yesterday ,drove into Peterborough, got about 4 miles then "reduced engine performance" actualy no engine performance! After an hour Chris from Landrover Assistance arrived and after testing said fuel pressure issue ...so checked history , car was at -16 c overnight! so frozen diesel is the issue. He then told me I was the 4th vehicle with the same problem, (both Jags and Landrovers). I will also be looking to see if Morrisons Diesel is not up to spec. After clearing the faults car had warmed up enough so no more issue. Have to praise Chris from LRA friendly,efficient and thorough

Also just heard of another local freelander with solid diesel so clearly a real issue around south lincs.

I wondered obout windchill , if the car was wet and there is wind it will drop the temperature even further as the water is evaporated off by the latent heat effect.

Nick 2012 MY TD4 SX Manual in very rare Buckingham Blue!

So, looks like we've suffered from a bad case Fenland Tundra! Have to say though, the countryside did look nice.

Almost tropical now ~ 2.5°C  Freelander 1 TD4 HSE - gone, 2 weeks after the Cat.Converter!
Freelander 2 TD4 SE Auto MY08 - Santorini black

Had the same problem last week at 4 different days!

My TD4 Freelander 2 every 4 times turned off the engine at the same place. I drove about 15 km! That spot was the coldest −18 to −20 °C.
My car is in no garage or shelter and the nights are about −15°C cold here. It's a windy place.

The display says reduced engine performance. The first time it happened I continued my way (had 12 km to go) but max speed was 60 km/h.

The other days the same thing happened. But this time I parked my car off the street, waited for 10 minutes, restarted the engine and the message was gone.

After the 4th day I called my Land Rover dealer and the technician told me, the Diesel conduct didn't have gelled diesel because I always drove the same distance. When that diesel is used the engine gets the gelled diesel from the tank, which stoops the engine.

He told me if the car stands in the sun even at −10°C everything is OK. But at −17°C and lower Diesel has it's problems.
Even if the gas stations tell that they do sell Winter Fuel.

Many ARAL (BP) stations here in Luxembourg did only sell Diesel made of −10°C. Many Diesel cars stopped these last weeks.

IMHO it's again a money stealing business from the fuel companies. Normally it's not that cold in Europe like this Winter. So let's sell so called Winter Fuel which works at −10°C instead of the real Winter version which should be OK at −20°C. It's cheaper to produce! Freelander 2 SE 4Td Izmir Blue, Dog cage for Alaskan Malamute, iphone Navigon Navigator

landy19840 wrote:

Uk fuel is only rated to -15 and everywhere else in Europe -20

Should be but several ARAL (BP) stations here in Luxembourg only had −10°C or even −6°C capable Diesel.

I like the EU: a lot of nonsense rules and laws, but everybody only wants to make a lot of money, by bypassing these rules. Before the EU name it was called European Economic Community, one knew it's about stealing our money (erhg sorry, maximizing profit ). And Banks and Fuel companies are the biggest villains.  Freelander 2 SE 4Td Izmir Blue, Dog cage for Alaskan Malamute, iphone Navigon Navigator

Think you have all answers my concerns - have been in Alps for last week with ambient at -21 at times although apparently -32 a couple of days ago. Have had the 'Reduced engine performance' message multiple times (12 times on short journey this morning). Eject the key and reinsert then restart and it seems fine for anything between 30 seconds and 5 minutes before going again. Did fill up in middle of nowhere last week but topped up yesterday at large supermarket where diesel was marked as treated to -15.

On another matter my clutch is giving me cause for concern - I stalled on step hill while heavily laden and had awful clutch smell - have had much lesser smell on numerous occasions since but so far all is still working fine... only 26000 on clock and FSH...

Any comments on either issue would be appreciated...

Cheers


Tim

Its been down to minus 28°C at night here in our village, (daytime highs minus 9°C lows minus 15°C averages so fat this winter) and this location is also a windy spot sitting at the confluence of 3 valleys (one east, the others north and south) and her Ladyships FL2 TD4-e is not garaged. She has not this winter so far, nor the previous two winters had "cold" starting problems or reduced engine performance. Therefore I give my support to Cyberhusky's diesel fuel comments. You been the victims of "ordinary" diesel being passed off as "winter" diesel.