iNTERESTING READ including some very disgruntled FR2 owners

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/land_rover.html

This one is worse,

http://landroverhell.com/

The USA is a rather large market and so it would come as no surprise that there's a large number of complainants on that link.

Acknowledging this firstly you would then need to weed out those who expect to buy a second hand vehicle beyond the manufacturers warranty period or mileage, and still expect LR to cover their misfortune. Those vehicles are the subject of a customer/retailer contract-of-sale.

Next, unfortunately on the surface there appears to be a volume of hearsay (because that's what internet comment is) that suggests that the US LR Management Team are not pulling their weight in supporting the brand's ambitions re excellent customer service and build quality. This comment also applies to the US official dealership network, a body over which LR has ability to leverage some degree of control. However, removing poor dealerships is fraught with litigation, particularly in the USA. Both these two bodies "Country Distributor & Dealerships" are an area that LR must diligently apply regular inspection and review in all of their markets not just in the US. I live in Switzerland and our own dealership(s) experiences to date are of the "2 Star Also Rans" not "5 Star Olympians".

Finally on the internet listing you are left with the legitimate claims for poor quality build and durability. There is no excuse for this and it is common knowledge that both Land Rover and Jaguar are yet to achieve anything like the consistent standards of quality and customer service that their competitor "Premium Brand" peers achieve. Every vehicle manufacturer has a lemon on its books - it is how you respond once the problem has been raised sorts the wheat from the chaff.

Land Rover/Jaguar roll up its sleeves; throw arrogance, poor management and bad distributors/dealers out of the window, and at the same time, embark upon a pro-active PR campaign to let the driving public know what you have done and are doing in these arenas - name and shame. Its good for your business and good for your customers .

ad210358 wrote:

This one is worse,
http://landroverhell.com/

I am about to become another disgruntled owner. If anybody can recall, My XS failed to start after owning it for 2 weeks from brand new last December. After allowing my local dealer in Cambridge the chance to fix it approx. 5 times, I formally rejected it and handed the keys back.

Its fair to say that my dealer was outstanding in keeping me in a vehicle whilst they continued to try to find out what was wrong with mine, but the deal I was offered almost made me tell them to shove it. After thinking it through I decided to accept the offer of a new one for a further contribution of £750.00 bearing in mind that I would have had a essentially the use of a brand new car for the best part of 10 months.

Well, my new one turned up in October and I picked it up all shiny and new and when I drove out I thought that the steering was making a little hissing sound............ I didn't want to ruin my moment so I thought I would give it a week or two and see if it settled down.

This Monday saw me driving by so in I went just to get them to check it. 30mins later it is booked in for the following day for a "new power steering expansion vessel". When I collected it, I was told that it had needed to have a new power steering pump and full flush through as well. Alarm bells were starting to ring but I figured I couldn't be that unlucky twice. Outside I went, jumped in it and it was exactly the same. Called the technician out who had done the work and he stood there scratching his head and then said "It looks like you will need a new steering rack as well".

I called back inside and rejected this car as well. I have now had two phone calls from the Dealers telling me that the car is ready for collection as if there is nothing wrong with a vehicle that hasn't done 700 miles yet needing this type of work

After talking to the manager this afternoon, I was told that there was no way I would be able to have a refund of my money and that the best bet would be to just take my car back. He was sympathetic to my position he told me but if I insisted on my money back, he would have to instruct their solicitors. I have a meeting with him tomorrow morning to see what can be done and there is no guarantee that I won't knock the @@@@ out.

I'm done with this bullshit, I wish I had had a reliable one like the majority of you on these forums, as I really did like my car, but enough is enough. I have had more problems in one year with my most expensive car to date then I have in the last 24yrs of driving.

Get some legal advice yourself Bananaman. He is trying to intimidate you by saying he will get a solicitor involved as if to say we are a mighty dealership and you are just a single customer so we will win no question etc.

Copied this from an email from my law lecturer that I used to help another member out with earlier this year so some of it may be useful. Hope it helps.


SoGA Sec14(2) implies a condition that where goods are sold in the course of a business, the goods supplied will be of satisfactory quality.

SoGA Sec. 14(2A) creates an objective standard of satisfactory quality taking into account the description of the goods, the price and any other relevant factors.
Bartlett v Sidney Marcus Ltd (1965) 2 All ER 753

SoGA Sec. 14 2(B) creates a checklist relevant to the quality of the goods:
Fitness for all purposes for which the goods are commonly supplied.

Minor defects:

For you friend:
Rogers v Parish Ltd (1987) 2 All ER 232
Held, that where goods as delivered are defective, they are not of merchantable quality and do not become so simply because they are capable of being used in some way. So they can be rejected.

Against your friend rejecting but suppports compensation claim:
Bernstein v Pamson Motors (1987) 2 All ER 220
Held, that B was not entitled to rescind, but could claim damages limited to his cost in getting home after the breakdown, the loss of a full tank of petrol, compensation for his ruined day out, and for his loss of use while the car was being repaired (five days).

You could also argue in along the lines of durability and safety:
Durability requires that at the time risk is transferred the goods should not deteriorate more rapidly than can reasonably be expected. Safety requires goods of satisfactory quality to be safe for use.

Thain v Anniesland Trade Centre (1997) SLT 102
Held, refusing the appeal, that the failure which overtook the car could have occurred at any time in such a vehicle, and T had accepted the risks associated with a car of that age and mileage when she purchased it. So this person lost because it was a second-hand car; your friend purchased new so the reverse should apply.

Of course these are just academic cases which I use and you might be able to find more up to date cases - use westlaw with these and it might update you with overules. That said, the principles remain basically the same.

But it worries me he has had 20k out of it; so long as he brought the faults to the attention of the seller right from the beginning and they have tried to repair but to no avail, rejection might work. If it is littered with different faults then it also looks favourable because it would suggest it is a bad one all around.

Of course, Im not offering professional advice to be relied on by your friend in court. LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Thanks for the info Doctor.

It wasn't said in an intimidating manner but I will see how it goes tomorrow. If I feel that he is taking the then it will be "light blue touch paper, and stand well clear".

I will still need another vehicle and they have plenty of other car manufacturers under their umbrella. I just wish I know what to get instead. The damn car ticks all my boxes apart from the fact that they are obviously put together with inferior parts.

Damnit, Manager is a nice chap.

I might end up with a Volvo XC60. Good thing we are heading for the mildest Nov on record..............

Their is a RRS owner over on the other forum who has had issues with her dash lighting up like a christmas tree, fixed, does it again and again and again

She has had to go legal on them and this is in the hands of her brief now, she was forced in to collecting her car and travelling back yesterday she reported that her dash lights satnav have all turned off and have no lights

Best of all, which is quite shocking her dealer has written to her to say she is not welcome any of their LR dealerships any more, so she has a continuously faulty car and they are saying they will not fix it as she is not welcome

obviously this is what my understanding of her fault is and some of this might not be exactly how it has happen but is something near the truth Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Manager has used his charm !
I would of turned it to your advantage & negotiated 2 years extra warranty or couple years free servicing. Garage are partly to blame as they should of made sure it was 110% right before it went out.

I found with mine, its not so much the car but the useless dealers that miss so many importunity's. They should get it right, double check as if it was their own.
As you may remember mines been an absolute pig but after 3.5 years its finally done 1200 miles without a single fault code or hick up. Normally it would develop at least 30-50 faults is under 1000 miles all electrical related ! but would the dealer ever believe me !!!!! Thats where they were going wrong.

Just fitting a nice big set of snow Tyres on and looking forward to some white stuff ! bring it on.

I'd think twice about going down the rejection route Bannaman as SOGA is far from clear cut. Especially with cars, each case has to be taken on its individual merits. On a Jaguar forum I read, one poster went down the rejection route having what appeared to be "egged on" by posters shouting SOGA and the dealer turned the tables which resulted in him being made bankrupt, so c**k sure he was and his Solicitor. Judge saw different though!!

I think you are suffering from dealer incompetence.

I believe that with reported PAS problems there is a set procedure that the dealers have to follow which involes a very strict way of reporting fixing in stages and asking for permission but should only entail one dealer visit unless they need to order parts and the owner needs the car back.

The issue you have I would suggest is also subjective. When is noisy, noisy?

Take it to another dealer I reckon and get their opinion.

@ oldgeezer

With patience like yours you deserve the rest of your motoring life without another single problem. I think I am patient but I would have snapped had my car been like yours.

The manager has only worked his charm as far as the dealership and there treatment of me (the customer) goes. And if he doesn't put me in something else equally as nice (XC60) as what I had then we will be in dispute regardless.

I would prefer the easy option, but I won't bend over for it

@npinks

It would appear that nobody wishes to be responsible for what they sell. The dealers just try and pass the buck.

"The issue you have I would suggest is also subjective. When is noisy, noisy?"



Hi Heliosuk,

The issue is that this is my second Freelander because my first one kept failing to start and they couldn't find out why. I was reassured again and again that I would have no further problems, and yet here I am again with my brand new replacement.

The noise was a fairly loud hissing sound (turn your wheel to full lock, it should hiss as the pressure relief valve kicks in, or so i'm told) which mine did as soon as you touched the wheel. Highly annoying.

To be fair, if that had been fixed I would have probably left it there and sulked for awhile, but when they said it needed a new steering rack as well, after only 650 miles I could feel a sense of deja vu coming on.

These cars are meant for more patient people than me i'm afraid.

There was a known power steering fault with some of the early models. Basically the weld on the steering rack was not up to standard and some metal filings worked loose and eventually clogged the power steering filter. Repair involved, first a replacement of the power steering filter, if that didn't work then the filter and reservoir, if it still didn't work then the steering rack was replaced.

This happened on my 07 SE and once it was done there were no further problems with it.

Bananaman, while I see where you are coming from and the postion you have taken I would caution against relying on SOGA to reject your second Freelander. Taken on its own it would appear you have had one problem with it which the dealer has fixed. I doubt based on that, that there is a court that would back you. However, taking into account the problems with both vehicles you might, just might have a chance but I'm not sure I'd be willing to take that risk.

Just my layman's opinion for what it's worth.

Bananaman wrote:

It would appear that nobody wishes to be responsible for what they sell. The dealers just try and pass the buck.