After a test drive of a SD4 yesterday, I asked the salesman about the changes to the facelift model and if it still had an Aisin Warner auto box. He said they now had a ZF auto box.

I have had many years of experience with the excellent Aisin Warner autos with Volvos. They take huge mileages and are pretty much bomb-proof.

Is the dealer right? It wouldn’t surprise me if he wasn’t – hey, what do dealers know?

Alex will be your best bet regarding an answer on this one, but I'm am almost positive it is the Aisin Warner, Zf's I believe were used on the earlier Disco's and a few others but I believe Freelanders have stayed with AW.

I don't see why they'll change the autobox as it handles up to 450 Nm of torque...
But it is easy to find out.
We just need to ask someone with an SD4 to open the hood and see that on the case of the autobox, on the right of the engine bay. You can see the autobox just below the airfilter.

Salesman speak with forked tongue!!!

My new SD has same (uprated) "FoMoCo Aisin AW Japan" label on box, as in my previous 08 and 10 MY GS Autos.

Not 100% sure but think the RR Sport and D4 now have ZF. Nothing wrong with a ZF box it works wonders in a 1978 Mk 2 Escort All FL2's (3) Gone
2011 Mercedes C180 CGI Gone
FL2 GS Auto SD with heated leather, factory tints, alloy spare and a few other bits.

So things are clear: the same Aisin autobox on SD4.

This could be said without seeing the box.
Why? Because the AWF21 box from Aisin is designed to be paired with engines mounted transversaly.
So, in other words, is a very compact box, comparable in size with a manual one.
On the other hand, the ZF boxes (which equip Disco 3,4 and RR) are generally paired with longitudinal mounted engines and don't need to be compact. In fact they are quite long.

alex_pescaru wrote:

So things are clear: the same Aisin autobox on SD4.

This could be said without seeing the box.
Why? Because the AWF21 box from Aisin is designed to be paired with engines mounted transversaly.
So, in other words, is a very compact box, comparable in size with a manual one.
On the other hand, the ZF boxes (which equip Disco 3,4 and RR) are generally paired with longitudinal mounted engines and don't need to be compact. In fact they are quite long.

GeorgeG wrote:

alex_pescaru wrote:

So things are clear: the same Aisin autobox on SD4.

This could be said without seeing the box.
Why? Because the AWF21 box from Aisin is designed to be paired with engines mounted transversaly.
So, in other words, is a very compact box, comparable in size with a manual one.
On the other hand, the ZF boxes (which equip Disco 3,4 and RR) are generally paired with longitudinal mounted engines and don't need to be compact. In fact they are quite long.

I rather suspected there was a good chance the dealer was wrong - they often are. It amazese that if your job is selling a product you don't actually know basic details of that product. It gives the impression that they are not really interested, but I suppose thats why they are car salesmen and not brain surgeons.

That reminds me of a time a sofa salesman told my wife that recliners made vacuuming easier! she was not impressed

The salesman were I ordered told me that the gearbox learning cycle was 3-4000 miles, obviously a slow learner. It is amazing how little knowledge some of them really have at times.

There are two types of successful salesman. Obviously the one who knows all about what he is selling is the one we want, but strangely the other type is the one who knows nothing at all about the product, but is still a great salesman! After all, quite a lot of potential customers will know nothing about Land Rovers. His (or her) job is not necessarily to give them expert knowledge, it's to sell the product. Traditional wisdom is that it's the one who knows a little about what he/she is selling, but not quite enough, who is least likely to be successful.

alex-pescaru - you seem not to know what you write, as usual.
The AISIN automatic gearbox is made by Toyota, and is quite acceptable, no more and no less. ZF is building the most compact and reliable automatic gearboxes worldwide. Otherwise BMW, Audi, Jaguar, RR and other premium car manufacturers would not use them. So do not spread false information to the members of this fine forum.

yamaha-fan wrote:

alex-pescaru - you seem not to know what you write, as usual.
The AISIN automatic gearbox is made by Toyota, and is quite acceptable, no more and no less. ZF is building the most compact and reliable automatic gearboxes worldwide. Otherwise BMW, Audi, Jaguar, RR and other premium car manufacturers would not use them. So do not spread false information to the members of this fine forum.

@yamaha-fan

Aisin AWF21 autobox or otherwise named TF-81SC (Ford, Mazda) or TF-80SC (GM, Volvo) is made by Aisin AW. Info about the box here.


Aisin AW is a stand alone company with over 40 years of history and is not a brand name of Toyota.
The fact that Toyota holds 30% of Aisin shares (info here and here) don't entitle the box to be Toyota made.
Neither the fact that one of the directors is Kanshiro Toyoda, scion of Toyoda family who created Toyota Co.
Aisin AW supplies automatic transmissions to a great number of automotive manufacturers around the world.
Aisin, as one of the major Toyota group suppliers, shares many designs and development activities with Toyota. Because of this, Toyota has its own series of boxes made by Aisin AW, named Toyota A transmissions. But this doesn't mean that the boxes are made by Toyota.
The same with the FL2's autobox. Is made for Ford, by Aisin AW, not Toyota.
In extremis, indeed, the two companies have in common some people from Toyoda family, but they are two separate entities.

And supposing you are correct in what you've said, this means that Land Rover itself is spreading false informations. Just read the first phrase on the first page of the autobox's description below.
https://www.freel2.com/gallery/albums/user...ration.pdf

So, in the end, who is spreading false informations???
By your statement (The AISIN automatic gearbox is made by Toyota), is like someone is saying that "Citroen cars are made by Fiat"... (see Sevel)

And where did I said that AWF21 isn't good?
If you have read carefully my posts, I've kept said to people that FL2 autobox is OK for its purposes.

I am surprised by your statement in the previous post.
Seems to be one made without reading the posts carefully...
Angry and/or frustrated because of the 2sO thread?...

For your information and peace of mind, when I say something, I try to be as documented as possible, without hiding my sources... (see above the links embedded in the text)

PS: And by the way, Audi (A3, TT) and Jaguar (X-type) are also using autoboxes from Aisin AW...

yamaha-fan, what happened to this statement

Quote:

have therefor decided not to participate in this forum any longer

You went away in a huff because you couldn't back up your claims and now return to try and discredit our most knowledgeable and helpful member, who can and does back up his statements with factual evidence.

Thanks EYorkshire, but anybody can know more than me. And I can make mistakes.
But I don't mind if am being corrected (I even ask for it).
One, based on what information has, can draw a conclusion. And post it on the forum.
Other one, with a new information, can throws previous conclusion away.
But this doesn't mean that the first person was malicious and had bad intentions.
This is how progres is made. By a continuous exchange of ideas, wrong or correct.

In this matter, of autoboxes, based on the info that I presented, I draw the conclussion that FL2's autobox is made by Aisin AW.
If yamaha-fan has other informations, that suggest the FL2's autobox is made by Toyota, I kindly as her to point them out.
Then all of us can draw conclusions and if I am wrong, I stand corrected. And I promise I wont get upset.

But from here to the point of attacking a person with a statement like "you don't know, as usual", in other words, "hey, sit down, you're stupid", is a matter of education.
Maybe I am stupid, but, with the help of others, I am trying to heal myself....

Last edited by alex_pescaru on 17th May 2011 6:59 am. Edited 1 time in total

None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes, it's just that we make more than you do
Maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong but it was the attack on you that was uncalled for, especially from someone hiding behind a cloak.
From the short time I have been on this Forum it is obvious to me that you have a technical knowledge most of us lack and you have no problem with sharing it.

I'll say no more off the topic.