Mini:
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=28149

FL2:
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=43032

Bear with me here

The reason for this comparison was an unusual encounter with a mini that I had the other day. As I joined the A38 slip road (incline) I spotted a lorry and decided to overtake it going up the slip road. As I moved into the outside lane a chavtastic yob suddenly appeard on my rear bumper in a normal mini cooper doing about 500mph. Too late for me to move aside so I got past the lorry as quickly as I could before moving aside and letting the kamakaze yob go on his way. The thing I noticed was the yob struggling to keep up with the FL2 during the overtaking of the lorry. I floored it in 3rd at 30mph before utilising all the gears and backing off at 75 in 6th.

Looking at the stats on the above link, the mini is quite a lot less powerful on both BHP and torque but is faster to 60 and top speed due to the weight difference. NOW I KNOW THE FL2 IS NOT A SPORTS CAR AND THATS NOT MY POINT OF COMPARISON SO BEAR WITH ME HERE.

My point is one of curiosity. I was just wanting to get past the lorry but was surprised by the yob struggling to keep up. So I am curious, Do you guys think that this is because of the massive amount of torque bearing in mind we were going up a hill?

Do any of you find that other drivers are surprised by the in gear pace of the FL2? I think auto owners have commented on sand mode giving you good acceleration from standstill.

Perhaps I will give the mini yob a lift when he gets stuck in snow this winter  LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

Lol good example of stomp over power...that's what torque and diesels are about, diesels aren't great from a standing start, and unless a petrol is right on the boil they're rubbish all over (talking about small capacity 4 pots here!)

Now you know how to surprise the kamikaze yobs  Mine: 2012 Golf GTI Edition 35
Family's: 2009 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Auto, Stornoway

Yorkshire - God's County

tourque would be the deciding factor here, bet the mini driver felt a right pilchard 2009 FL2 GS
1985 90Tdi

Imagine how much of a Pratt they would have been if you had a new 190bhp FL2 SD4  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Good point npinks. The best part was that I had no intention of racing him but he still got hammered! I let him go on his way cos he was driving like an idiot after that. The thing is though, the FL2 is fantastic no matter what the weather conditions are. I would like to pass him on a snowy morning  LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
LOT (Lord of Time) - University of Gallifrey

My dad has a cooper diesel (he's a driving instructor) and despite the petrol looking faster on paper than the diesel the diesel is probably quicker in the real world becuase of the torque and the fact that its there when you most want it (ie accelerating from around 30 upto 70)

Petrol in my mind still give a more spirited drive, and if you know how to drive them properly can be quicker but I think you have to work them harder...

For example, people for years have said that the BMW 535 derv (which incidentally is a brilliant car and a fab engine) is quicker in the real world from point a to b than an M5

I know from experience when I was overtaken by a 530diesel in my 330i petrol that the power in the derv is immediate, but as soon as I swapped a few cogs an wound the engine up he was dust!

I think Auto's help diesels also as a decent one will tend to keep the engine in the torque curve which the FL2 does pretty well... although I wish it would hold on to 6th a bit longer at speeds below 60 Freelander 2 TD4 Auto, SE, Narvik Black, Alpaca full leather, Rear Headrest Entertainment System, 6 CD, 18 HSE Wheels, Privicy tints

Who gives a f about the performance difference or not. The FL2 is a far better vehicle all round than anything else on four tyres including LR's overrated Disco  2007 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Manual with Premium Pack & Moonroof.
Stornoway Grey with Ebony Black Pleather, Clear Indicators, Body Side Mouldings etc.

Uphill, your torque will win every time. Sometimes, I feel I could drive up the side of a house.

Don't forget, 0-60 is always done on the flat. Plus, as you state, you were in 3rd to start, at 30, he probably was in top and would never have considered changing gear to suit. Typical chavscum. We Don't Care About Pot Holes !!

I've got both and love them both. Has never entered my mind to compare them. Just two classy drives.

Before my fl2 I used to own the Mini Cooper S in 54 plate form. A superb car that answered it's brief with flying colours. Your experience however, as others have pointed out, has illustrated that the Fl2's torque, in combo with even a slight incline and the nature of turbo charged diesel power will pull away significantly on a flat from the mini. This was the immediate back to back feeling when I switched to the FL2. Thumbs up then.

However...did you notice the year of the mini at all? All pre 2006 mini's including mine were based on a Chrysler unit which was a strong enough engine for it's time but was replaced thereafter by a bmw designed (PSA built) unit, with much better power delivery. In the Mini's defence a little....put the two on tarmacked country lanes with some challenging bends...perhaps make sure the mini's the S version (Twin Scroll Turbo charged) and though no STi or anything, the result would certainly be reversed !!

Horses for courses and all that..

I also had a mini cooper for 2 years, 07 plate, and it's certainly the FL2 torque that gave you the edge.

in the cooper you would need to be in the right gear and have the revs high to extract the best performance, and if not you would find youself struggling.

I would say the standard mini cooper is not a "performance" car, but just a small fun, economical hatch and as I said you do need to drive it to get the best out of it.

I would also say which may surprise a few, that I found the mini cooper handling terrible, it crashed and banged over the slightest bump and if you hit a bump mid corner it would try to throw you off the road !!

Iain

Am I right thinking that the old ones were Turbo charged. The Forester Turbo I owned was lightening fast BUT, if you took your foot off the power it was useless, the turbo would not spool up again and the power was gone. (More down to the torque curve, big peak at 2000rpm then dropping off at 3500 rpm) I do however think that it is a symptom of petrol turbo engines. Hi Darling, I'll be home in 10 mins. If I'm not back, please read this message again...

AndyC wrote:

Who gives a f about the performance difference or not. The FL2 is a far better vehicle all round than anything else on four tyres including LR's overrated Disco

you need to get out more andy,,

they are two totally different beasts.

back to the mini,, actually doc the two vehicles are not so far apart,,,the FL2 being probably closer to the countryman, but driving"swmbo's"(for andy's benefit ) FL2 it reminds me of the works cooper i had a few years back..

ad15 wrote:

AndyC wrote:

Who gives a f about the performance difference or not. The FL2 is a far better vehicle all round than anything else on four tyres including LR's overrated Disco

you need to get out more andy,,

they are two totally different beasts.

back to the mini,, actually doc the two vehicles are not so far apart,,,the FL2 being probably closer to the countryman, but driving"swmbo's"(for andy's benefit ) FL2 it reminds me of the works cooper i had a few years back..

Oh, we get “out more” and probably considerably more than you suggest ad15, but asphalt jungle performance has little use where we mostly drive. Secondly living in one of the world’s most expensive countries, to own a Disco would mean a second mortgage just to fill with fuel and ownership depreciation extremely painful. Totally different beasts, yes, but the larger of the two is destined soon to go the same way as the dinosaurs did. Comparatively the Disco is not worth the extra cost for diving enjoyment and certainly not much better for off road use either, unless you have the need to drive up a mountain as Mr. Clarkson demonstrated.

The Mini by the way is not a real Mini and I can ensure you that in their day (had a Cooper S many moons ago) was far more fun than today’s bland BMW mini still whatever turns you on  2007 Freelander 2 HSE TD4 Manual with Premium Pack & Moonroof.
Stornoway Grey with Ebony Black Pleather, Clear Indicators, Body Side Mouldings etc.

[quote="AndyC"][quote="ad15"]

AndyC wrote:

Oh, we get “out more” and probably considerably more than you suggest ad15, but asphalt jungle performance has little use where we mostly drive. Secondly living in one of the world’s most expensive countries, to own a Disco would mean a second mortgage just to fill with fuel and ownership depreciation extremely painful. Totally different beasts, yes, but the larger of the two is destined soon to go the same way as the dinosaurs did. Comparatively the Disco is not worth the extra cost for diving enjoyment and certainly not much better for off road use either, unless you have the need to drive up a mountain as Mr. Clarkson demonstrated.

The Mini by the way is not a real Mini and I can ensure you that in their day (had a Cooper S many moons ago) was far more fun than today’s bland BMW mini still whatever turns you on

i beg to differ there,, the FL2 has NO low box,,, is only rated to tow what ...2 tons? there isnt a PROPER off road tyre available,,,ohhh and the clutch will disintegrate if you try going it,,, you COULD get an auto,,,, but then that's kind of defeating the object...

as for asphalt jungle,,,, what's that??? we live in cornwall....

and the fuel economy between the two is not THAT far apart,,,