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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3156

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

Well said glassman, I think you summed up the main issues.

The last point about lack of reliable electricity generation, I think is very relevant.

We have just closed down Hinkley Point Nuclear Power Station which I read has provided about 20% of the countries needs for close on half century. This is despite further delays to Hinkley C. We always seem to be so short-sighted when it comes to planning.

As I said in my post above, EVs are nice to drive, we must sort out the barriers that stop a lot of us enjoying the experience.

PS - More bad news as China puts back opening of giant battery factory - it shows that we are just as exposed in the EV world as we are in the present Oil Dependant one.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/pelo...ory=foryou FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #423815 2nd Aug 2022 6:47 pm
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MartynB



Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: Currently Rootless !
Posts: 1781

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

This may sound crackers , but I always fancied owning a Kia Soul ! . This was based on renting one in the USA (about 8 years ago) for a couple of weeks when I went out to look at a process (blending fracking fluid actually , which is quite topical again ) . I liked the fact that the Soul , with the boxy shape and with the rear seats folded was a great mini van .
Cut to yesterday I saw a new Soul with an EV badge . An ideal second car , if my Hilux ever arrives . I looked it up on the internet ….. wait for the drum roll …… £36,000 pounds . And thereby is the issue , yes I could go buy one , but to put 36 grand into a car that used to be a £25 k diesel motor , just makes a joke of the whole thing . 2009 GS Auto Zermatt Silver - Sold June 21 after 10 years of ownership

2016 Subaru Outback SE 2.0 diesel SE Premium Lineartronic Sold 2024 after 8 years and 80k miles . Best Car I ever owned !

2023 Toyota Hilux invincible X 2.8 Auto .

Post #423833 3rd Aug 2022 9:34 am
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Could still be worth the change, for the first six years of ownership we saved roughly £1800 a year on fuel after changing to an EV, and we had a fairly abstemious vehicle before giving us about 38 mpg diesel 4X4, even now with the higher electric costs we are still saving around £1000 a year, it doesn’t take long to recover the initial outlay and that doesn’t include the much lower running costs regarding servicing.

Our i3 has cost us £160 a month over those almost seven years now all in, initial new cost, depreciation etc. Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #423837 3rd Aug 2022 10:42 am
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AT1963



Member Since: 23 Nov 2021
Location: Leicester
Posts: 252

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

There you go £25k for ICE and £36k for EV.
I suppose those who support the battery will argue that over time the cost of the ev will balance out on fuel saving- probably after about 6-7 years.
So how many folks keep a car for that long?
And as i have said and others have said...EVs for the well heeled Shocked

Post #423838 3rd Aug 2022 10:47 am
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Boxbrownie



Member Since: 17 Mar 2019
Location: Looe
Posts: 2053

United Kingdom 2007 Freelander 2 i6 HSE Auto Stornoway Grey

Errr we do Rolling with laughter Regards

David

Lovely i6 has now gone, but not me......

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you, as I may wish to offend you again......

Post #423839 3rd Aug 2022 10:54 am
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MartynB



Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: Currently Rootless !
Posts: 1781

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 GS Auto Zermatt Silver

Well the figures BB has posted are real life , which are worth much more than manufacturers snake oil ! I’m listening . I think 7 or 8 years 100k milez is a good time to keep a vehicle bought from new , as it’s still got a decent residual , and hasn’t got to the point where big bucks need spending ( assuming it’s been maintained properly )?

I’m currently embarking on new life MK2 , waiting for planning decisions on extensions to my new home , and an EV charger is on the plans for the new garage as it would be daft not to put the infrastructure in anyway . 2009 GS Auto Zermatt Silver - Sold June 21 after 10 years of ownership

2016 Subaru Outback SE 2.0 diesel SE Premium Lineartronic Sold 2024 after 8 years and 80k miles . Best Car I ever owned !

2023 Toyota Hilux invincible X 2.8 Auto .

Post #423853 3rd Aug 2022 8:43 pm
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Nodge68



Member Since: 15 Jul 2020
Location: Newquay
Posts: 2082

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 TD4 SE Manual Rimini Red

AT1963 wrote:
There you go £25k for ICE and £36k for EV.
I suppose those who support the battery will argue that over time the cost of the ev will balance out on fuel saving- probably after about 6-7 years.
So how many folks keep a car for that long?
And as i have said and others have said...EVs for the well heeled Shocked

The price disparity between ICE and EV is reducing, which is good.
Unfortunately a good EV is still expensive, but have you seen how expensive a Freelander 2 was when they were on sale? If you adjusted the new Freelander price to today's prices, you'll see an equivalent (ok there aren't many direct equivalents) EV isn't that much more expensive. You also have to factor in the much lower (currently anyway) running cost and maintenance costs simply because there's less to service, and EVs are more energy efficient. There's also less to go wrong as there's less moving parts to wear, so the cost of ownership is lower than an equivalent ICE, not to mention that many EVs have 6, 7, and 8 year warranties.

A way to have a Freelander sized EV without shelling out £60k, would be to convert a Freelander to an electric, using parts from a crashed EV.
This will become more viable and cheap in time, as the numbers of crashed EVs will increase when more are on the roads. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

Post #423871 4th Aug 2022 7:39 am
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SteveC



Member Since: 11 Oct 2013
Location: St Ives, Cambs
Posts: 281

England 2008 Freelander 2 TD4 HSE Auto Zermatt Silver

Boxbrownie wrote:

Our i3 has cost us £160 a month over those almost seven years now all in, initial new cost, depreciation etc.


So what happens in a couple of years time when the batteries need replacing?

Who wants to buy a second-hand EV with only a couple of years battery life remaining?

Or will you pay the several thousand pounds to replace the batteries? Steve

2008 TD4 HSE Auto, Zermatt Silver

Post #423872 4th Aug 2022 7:43 am
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Andy131



Member Since: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2187

United Kingdom 

As much as I would like the idea of converting a ICE vehicle to BEV using scrapped EV parts I think that it would be quite difficult. An old Defender yes, a modern car with all the individual control modules talking to each other - that's going to be a big ask for all but the most software savvy.

With modern vehicles the mechanicals tend to be the reliable bit, cooling systems and electrical stuff is the weak link - don't get me started on the regular (every few months on the DS) software updates. Remember every software update is an admission that you got it wrong previously. EVs still have cooling systems (causing a lot of problems at present) and lots and lots of electrics, most of which is new to the automotive world.

When it comes to cost our FL2 was a very expensive car when new, and the DS had a list price of £56k - easily enough to buy a new EV for. It's not that end of the market where the problem lies, we needed a newish car to replace the 12 year old Micra for the wife, settled on an ex-demonstrator MG3 for £8,500. It's going to be an awful long time before you can buy a 4 month old EV for less than £10k, and I can't imagine the battery lasting 12 years with even 80% range available. Tangiers Orange - gone, missing her
Replaced by Ewok what a mistake - now a happy Disco Sport owner

Post #423876 4th Aug 2022 8:06 am
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jules



Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: The Wilds of Warwickshire
Posts: 5062

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 SE Auto Firenze Red

The problem for second hand EVs will that once outside the warranty period, the cost of battery repair/replacement will be considerably more than the value of the car.
Time will tell as to how long the batteries will routinely last outside the warranty period. Jules

Post #423879 4th Aug 2022 8:53 am
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AT1963



Member Since: 23 Nov 2021
Location: Leicester
Posts: 252

United Kingdom 2013 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE Auto Orkney Grey

There are three issues:
1. Cost to buy in comparison to ICE and how long it will take to re-coup the outlay.
2. Cost of replacement batteries and how long they last
3. Manufacturing process and amount of CO2 used and how long before EV is carbon neutral

Lumping all this together and the fact that to date (certainly on lease) you keep car for 3 yrs and renew.
So when you get car new you are not helping to save the planet Rolling with laughter

Post #423882 4th Aug 2022 9:38 am
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Just a driver



Member Since: 29 Nov 2021
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 428

United Kingdom 2009 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Stornoway Grey

I don’t think it’s anything that we need worry about. If the government wants people in electric cars it has to make them affordable or make it law. At the moment for joe bloggs on £10 an hour or less who currently buys old cars and sell when really old for getting to work etc is never going to able to buy new of any car , electric or otherwise.

Post #423883 4th Aug 2022 9:38 am
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IanMetro



Member Since: 11 Sep 2017
Location: Somerset BS21
Posts: 3156

United Kingdom 2014 Freelander 2 SD4 Metropolis LE Auto Fuji White

Easy answer to potential battery problems - FIT PEDALS





https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58587521 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Post #423884 4th Aug 2022 9:40 am
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Jimboland



Member Since: 06 Dec 2015
Location: Northants
Posts: 735

England 2012 Freelander 2 SD4 GS Auto Santorini Black

AT1963 wrote:
There you go £25k for ICE and £36k for EV.
I suppose those who support the battery will argue that over time the cost of the ev will balance out on fuel saving- probably after about 6-7 years.
So how many folks keep a car for that long?
And as i have said and others have said...EVs for the well heeled Shocked


My Freelander 2 celebrates its' tenth birthday next week. It will probably last longer than me. Perhaps I should get buried in it or at least drive it to my own funeral.

J

PS: note to self: arrange to cancel the tax and insurance for after the funeral.

Post #423885 4th Aug 2022 10:01 am
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Lightwater



Member Since: 21 Aug 2014
Location: Sydney Northern Beaches
Posts: 4907

Ukraine 2013 Freelander 2 2.0T SE Auto Fuji White

Jimboland wrote:
My Freelander 2 celebrates its' tenth birthday next week. It will probably last longer than me. Perhaps I should get buried in it or at least drive it to my own funeral.

That will be fine tuning the timing! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

Post #423887 4th Aug 2022 10:24 am
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