It's not a free product even then, as the storage and transportation elements are not inconsiderable

 Current driveway contents:
2021 V60 Cross Country B5
2009 FL2 dog bus and shooting wagon

On Order: 2023 Fisker Ocean Ultra - deposit paid.

whilst it has been pointed out that hydrogen does have some issues at the moment, forward looking companies are investing capital to overcome these, and in the end they will succeed, just like it was said the early Tesla cars had large batteries that gave poor range and now if you want an executive electric car with a confirmed 300 mile charge range you can buy a BMW for £107,000, the the USA and German's are investing heavily on their Hydrogen infrastructure.

I can't see a future in hydrogen yet, as it's simply a fossil fuel in another form. 98% of all the world's hydrogen currently comes from gas, in a CO2 emission producing process.

There's nothing greener than taking solar power straight from a rooftop and charging an BEV with it.

Why waste masses of energy on manufacturing a highly pressurised dangerous gas, when it doesn't even come close to what's needed for the future.

There might be some niche applications, but for 95% of the population, a BEV is all that's needed. Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate. The family car.
2009 Rimini Red SE TD4. Gone.
2006 Tonga Green i6 HSE. Gone.
Audi A5 convertible, my daily driver.
1972 Hillman Avenger GT, the project.

An idea for static battery.

https://polarnightenergy.fi/sand-battery

' A "sand battery" is a high temperature thermal energy storage that uses sand or sand-like materials as its storage medium. It stores energy in sand as heat.

Its main purpose is to work as a high-power and high-capacity reservoir for excess wind and solar energy. The energy is stored as heat, which can be used to heat homes, or to provide hot steam and high temperature process heat to industries that are often fossil-fuel dependent. ' Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18

I always thought that Hydro Electric was the answer to mass storage of energy, in so much as excess water could be pumped uphill and stored until needed by hydro electric turbines.

A long time ago I am sure that I read that the series of lakes above Cardiff (that stretch up into the Brecon Mountains - beautiful drive - try it - A470 from Brecon down to Cardiff) were intended for such a project.

It seems from the story below that it was abandoned, nearly concreted over for housing, but is being brought back into existence, although I see no mention of energy storage.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-n...r-17609497 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Last edited by IanMetro on 21st Dec 2022 1:00 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Pumped storage hydroelectric schemes need a lot of height difference between the reservoirs (e.g. Dinorwig above Llanberis) which these reservoirs don't seem to have. The main problems are the initial capital cost which is very high, and needing a lot of land which can be flooded for the reservoirs.

There's one on the banks of Loch Lomond powered by water from Loch Sloy, it has the facility to pump back in low demand times if need be but the amount of rain there perhaps it doesn't need to. There is a saying there "if you can see the other side of the loch it's going to rain, if you can't it is" my PC is slightly to the right of Genghis
2012 HSE SD4 In Orkney Grey now gone, best car ever.

If you want an EV, why not join the queue - to charge.

It seems that after travelling to holiday destination, everyone wants charge at once, hence 2+hour wait.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/queue...c9d73a3095 FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

An ex colleague has just changed to a Tesla. His coffee intake has gone through the roof as he now spends a couple of hours a day waiting for a charger and charging it’s battery.

Mail on line running a similar story regarding long waits to charge EV's.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1...ueues.html MY 09 GS manual in Lago Grey, Wood Co arm rest and side bumper strips - now sold.

MY 15 SD4 SE Auto Orkney Grey with colour coded Bumper Door Mouldings

BossBob wrote:

An ex colleague has just changed to a Tesla. His coffee intake has gone through the roof as he now spends a couple of hours a day waiting for a charger and charging it’s battery.

Been some major queues at some of the more strategicly important charging sites
South Mimms/ Tebay being the main ones last few days
More chargers are needed on the major road network service stations
The odd 1 in a supermarket carpark is a band aid fix to the roll out of high speed charging realistically you need to charge where the car sits for long periods ie at home and the major service areas on long trips
Unfortunately the incentive to have an ev as a company car and tesla's ability to supply at volume especially during the chip shortage when most manufacturers had big wait times has seen growth outstrip charging network growth
Hopefully we will see an acceleration of charger roll out now demand has been proven but I expect a roller coaster ride for the next few years

Apparently one Tesla owner is quoted as saying :

"New Tesla owner and I’m super disappointed with the charging lark. Nobody told me that a winter charge would barely achieve half the performance." (sic)

Well, actually I think it has been suggested many times in the past, plus it doesn't much brains to work out that if you load a battery (eg lights, heating, high speed) the charge won't last as long.

Doh

Its just the same with any motive power - make it work harder then more energy is required. Jules

I think that the way that they measure EV and PHEV range (therefore consumption) needs an overhaul, or at least presented (and taxed) in a more realistic way.

I was actively considering an early PHEV Mitsubishi Outlander (including test drive, joining Outlander Forum), but the more I looked into it as a private (non business) owner, the less attractive any possible savings appeared., and I bought my FL22 Metro.
However the Owners Forum proved very interesting and informative, especially to me with my electronics background, as some of the owners tried to back-engineer to see how it worked.

If you you look at their forum you can see Ian4x4 joining in

https://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/sear...%5B0%5D=10

Back to the subject, -
From what I read the actual electrical storage effectiveness combined with the use of heating, lights, wipers, etc can half the winter range against the official 'laboratory' test figures.

If the government are serious about decreasing pollution in our cities, then the tax breaks built into the system somehow needs to stop company PHEV car drivers from using them only on petrol.

This VAG document makes interesting reading and seem quite fair even though they are trying to sell an electric car.

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/emobil...-measured/ FL2 XS SD4 Auto 2010 2012-2017 (21k - 91k miles) (MY2011)
FL2 Metropolis SD4 Auto 2014 2017- (16k - 77k+ miles) (MY2015)
Metro in its 11th Year of (Extended) LR Warranty / Full LR Service History
(Expensive, but Trouble/Worry free - hopefully?)

Lights & wipers etc won't use much, but heating will. I believe one manufacturer is using reverse cycle air conditioning but not Tesla. That will save a lot of energy.


As for real efficiency, ICE cars also lie through their teeth. Try 17L/100km on the Freelander petrol engine for city driving & that's not thick standing still traffic. It's still worth it! Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

Acoustic insulation ARB TPMS 3xARB air compressors After cooler Air tank On-board OCD pressure air/water cleaning Additional 50L fuel Carpet in doors ABE 2x1kg Waeco 28L modified fridge Battery 4x26ah Solar 120w Victron MPPT 100/20 DC-DC 18amps 175amp jumper plug Awning 6x255/60R18