Hi folks. Mrs rpaterson's i6 has given us a couple of non-start events in the few weeks we've owned it. When it happens, it seems to start, it just doesn't 'catch' and continue running. During the first couple of attempts, I'd seems to be turning over ok but by maybe the third attempt the battery seems to run out of puff.

I can usual get it going by tickling the throttle with my right foot while holding the brake with my left.

Is this related to the posts I see about an extra earth between the battery and gearbox? Any ideas folks?? Thanks.

Apologies, more info...

56 plate HSE with just under 80,000 miles. Non-franchised dealer allegedly serviced it prior to us picking it up so I can take that with a pinch of salt. I'll get around to checking plugs and filters etc soon.

Wondering if it's a hot start issue. We were sat with engine of for maybe half an hour this afternoon when the issue reared its head again. We waited perhaps ten minutes to try again and it burst into life no problem.

Edit-more info.
Recently had battery off car and gave it a full charge. Installed it back in car and let it sit for a wee while. Enlisted the help of a glamorous assistant to start it up while I held meter across the battery terminals. Ignition on = 12.6V and starting brought that down to around 11.6.

R. Paterson,

I don't recommend hot soaking the 3.2

there aren't many Gasoline powered owners here, mostly diesel

Here is some information that I posted on another forum


Here is what I did

1. charged the battery using a charger (disconnected battery first)

2. verified the battery state of charge using a hygrometer to confirm that the alternator is working (only works if you have wet cells not glass mat style) if you have a glass mat battery then you can use the voltage level

3. replaced all of the mini blade fuses in the engine compartment and in the passenger compartment (none were broken but all were corroded which is why I replaced them)

4. Replaced three relays in the engine compartment (i'll post tomorrow which three)

5. Stopped allowing the car to hot soak with the key docked (If I do my LR2 will run rough and misfire unless I shut it off and undock the key and complete the normal starting process) Note: I didn't fix this problem I just stopped doing the behavior that caused it.

Based on what I've read #5 can also be fixed with a software update but I am not able to confirm this.


A second post

Here is what I found from Volvo with respect to

5. Stopped allowing the car to hot soak with the key docked (If I do my LR2 will run rough and misfire unless I shut it off and undock the key and complete the normal starting process) Note: I didn't fix this problem I just stopped doing the behavior that caused it.


2008 VOLVO S80 | Safercar | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)


Manufacturer: VOLVO CARS OF N.A. LLC.
SUMMARY:
VOLVO IS RECALLING MY 2008-2010 S80, MODEL YEAR 2009-2010 XC70 AND MODEL YEAR 2010 XC60 VEHICLES. UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS THE SOFTWARE WITHIN THE CENTRAL ELECTRONIC MODULE (CEM) MAY NOT SEND A SIGNAL TO THE FUEL PUMP ELECTRONIC MODULE (PEM). THIS MISSING SIGNAL TO THE PEM INHIBITS THE START OF THE FUEL PUMP. THE DRIVER MAY BE ABLE TO START THE ENGINE IN SPITE OF THE FUEL PUMP NOT BEING ACTIVATED DUE TO RESIDUAL PRESSURE IN THE FUEL SYSTEM. IN SOME CASES, THE DRIVER MAY BE ABLE TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE A SHORT DISTANCE AT IDLE BUT THEN THE ENGINE MAY STALL.
CONSEQUENCE:
IF THE VEHICLE STALLS IN CERTAIN CONDITIONS, A CRASH COULD OCCUR.
REMEDY:
DEALERS WILL DOWNLOAD SOFTWARE TO THE VEHICLES' CEM FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2009

Note: this is exactly what my LR2 does if I hot soak it with the key docked

The thread is here but I warn you its very long https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr2-35/2...elp-78491/

Good Luck

Paul

Thanks very much. That's interesting about the fuel pump. When it fails to start the first time when trying, he does seems to catch almost and the revcounter reads maybe 500rpm is something. That does sound like it's firing using the residual pressure but then it just dies as you'd expect with no fuel getting through. After that, it just cranks and cranks with no movement of the revcounter.

I'll call LR tomorrow and ask about the software...

Just so you know

My LR2 still has the fault

I just never leave the key docked and so it never happens

The most difficult time to remember is during fill up. (I stop the engine but I have to remember to undock the key as well)

For me every time I stop the engine I undock the key and it behaves fine


Good Luck

Paul


PS I have also noticed that the docking and the starting need to be two deliberate actions, if you dock with your thumb and start with your index finger it is possible to beat the computer and cause the rough running. If you dock with your index finger and start with the same finger that is always slow enough for my LR2 to be happy.

Well my wife had another non-start this afternoon. It had sat, double locked, for maybe half an hour and when she came back out it wouldn't start. She tried a few times and then contacted me. I got there after another maybe twenty minutes and it started on the first push of the button.

I'm now seriously considering changing the crank sensor. I'll try the battery earth thing first, but if that doesn't work...

R. Paterson,

It could be the crank position sensor.

But it could also be a few other things.

Just to confirm the starter motor does engage and the cranking is normal (not slow) but it doesn't start?

Are any codes stored?

If the crank position sensor is sending a bad signal I think a code typically shows up.

Also do you have a code reader that checks the PIDs? If yes then what is the fuel pressure and the short term and long term fuel trim?


If it was my LR2 I would verify fuel first.

Get an inexpensive current meter and connect it to the fuse that powers the fuel pump module. If the module doesn't get power then the pump wont turn on and no amount of cranking will get the engine to start.

In fact when I check my battery voltage during cranking to determine the health of the battery I just remove the fuse (Because I don't want the engine to start and power the Alternator)

Here is what I bought

https://www.amazon.co.uk/305M-Fuse-Buddy-M...ini+Tester

If you remove the fuse for the fuel pump in box by the passengers foot and then connect this device you will see if the fuel pump is being powered.


One more reccomendation

Don't try restarting by pressing the start stop button a second time (My LR2 never starts if I do this)

Here is what I do

1- Dock Key

2- Foot on brake, press start stop

3- Crank but no start (Choice words are spoken)

4- Remove foot from brake

5- Press start stop button (this shuts down because my foot is not on the brake)

6- Undock Key

7- Redock the key

8- Foot on the brake and press the start stop button

9- Engine springs into life (Kind words are spoken: I never doubted you, I knew you could do it, etc. etc.)


Hopefully this helps

Paul

Hi p, thanks for the further reply. No codes are stored and my reader doesn't show live data so no idea of fuel pressure. I'll try the fuse check, will a decent multimeter be OK rather than a fuse buddy thingy??

Also, where exactly is the crank sensor?? Thanks again.

Edit to add - I try undocking and redocking the key but they doesn't work for me, it seems to be more time-based in my case. is, takes time to cool sufficiently.

R. Paterson,

If your meter can handle 10 amps then it wont be a problem

Nominal current is less then 5 amps

I recomend that you use one of these





You don't want the connection that you are making to be intermittent.

The module that controls the fuel pressure is depending on the power.


Another possibility may be to measure the voltage drop across the fuse.

I'll check mine tonight if I can and let you know the result.

Its basicially V=IR

V - measured voltage drop

I - calculated current

R - the resistance of the fuse


i will look for the crankshaft position sensor and get back to you


Good Luck

Paul

PS I saw your other post and I will remove my fuel pump fuse and check the tachometer during cranking, that yours is not showing RPMs is an interesting observation.

CPS location

See the picture.

The location shown is under the AC compressor.

You will likely need to take it out from below.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Checked the tachometer while cranking and it does move the needle

To get my LR2 to crank and not start I pulled the fuse for the fuel pump module

The needle was a bit delayed but it did show 200 to 400 RPMs (after about a second)

And I checked the repair manual and it confirmed that the crankshaft position sensor does trigger the tachometer

If you are getting no response from the tachometer then replacing the sensor makes a lot of sense


I tried to measure the voltage drop for the fuel pump module but it was too difficult to get to due to the angle

Thanks for the pictures, that'll help a lot. The tacho does show some revs during the first attempt though, but not during subsequent attempts. I would have thought that if it was working well enough to register revs then it'd work well enough to talk to the pump 😂

Hi Folks.

So the car has been back at the independent dealer for the past few days as I've given it to him to sort as per our consumer rights. He's done the following;

Stuck it on his diagnostics and not found anything - like I told him he wouldn't.
Got his 'specialist' electrical guy in and stuck it on his diagnostics and not found anything - like I told him it wouldn't.
He's now diagnosed the problem as being the fan control module allowing the engine to overheat therefore preventing a restart.

When I dropped the car off, I strongly suggested to him that it needed the software upgrade from LR and I repeated this when both diagnostic attempts failed.

Now I don't believe this is the case as the temp gauge was never above halfway during all of the failed starts (except one, more on that later). Without going into the ins and outs of it, he's prepared to pay for half of the parts cost and swallow the labour cost of replacing the module. I know I could stand my ground and bring the full force of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to bear upon him, but I'm also keen to get the car working and back in our possession. Here's where it gets interesting. He claims the part is £1,200 from LR but he's sourced an aftermarket part for £480 - so he'd be looking for £240 from me. I've called LR and they tell me that the module is just under £400 and comes with the shroud and the fan too - the whole kit and caboodle essentially.

I'm now thinking that he's just trying to bleed me for a decent portion of the expense that he's incurred so far with his investigations.

Now the car did overheat once on a quite warm day and then fail to restart for quite a longer period than it usually takes (usually 45 minutes or so), but that's' the only time it's ever overheated.

My main concern is that I don't think this is the cause of the starting issue at all. I'm going to call him tomorrow and ask him to explain exactly what it is that he's proposing to change and then I'll hit him with the cost I got from LR.

I'd welcome any opinions folks. I know that my rights would allow me to reject any charge that he tries to levy upon me, but that's going to draw things out and result in a long protracted battle with this guy.

I'm also aware that this is the one chance that I'm legally obliged to give him to fix the issue and that, if it doesn't, I can then stick the car into LR and chase him for the cost associated with that (along with the £240 that he's looking for at the moment). The part hasn't been ordered yet as he's waiting for the nod from me.

I'm quite torn. I want it fixed within my rights, but I don't my wife to have to put up with a battle to get her car fixed within our rights as she's been through a rough time over the past year with other things as it is!

Update.
Car went into local LR dealer and they changed the fan control module. They had the car for over a week but couldn't replicate the hot start issue. Every time I called, I mentioned the software update. They put the hot start issue down to a lazy starter motor. I explained that I didn't think this was the cause and once again mentioned the software update. They changed the starter anyway. To be honest, the new starter did spin up MUCH quicker than the old one.
There logic was that the old starter was sluggish and drawing excess current from the battery which was stopping the ECU powering up. All was well for a few days until...it didn't start when hot.

I'm now in the position where I've paid for a starter that I didn't actually need. Yes, the old one was failing but that's not the same as failed. I'm now considering my options with them. I'm going to call them and ask for the software update to be done free of charge seeing as how I've had to stump up for a new starter. It's not as if they'll be able to refit the old one, it'll have been skipped.
If the software update is a known issue, shouldn't it be free of charge if a customer presents with a hot start issue???

R Paterson,

I am sorry to hear that you are still having the problem.

The first two pictures are for the poor starting

The next seven are all fuel system related

Note: that the poorly routed cable for the fuel pump can cause problems (i.e. loss of fuel pressure)





























Good Luck

Paul