Stay cool (it is winter) chill out.

Strutting polemic points of view or worse, waving threats of censorship serves no positive purpose. Keep the thread alive, let those who wish to read its content to do so and act accordingly to your own judgement.

And, allow diverse positions to be taken on this subject and to be recorded, but when doing so, post them in a cordial manner in order to promote a healthy debate on the subject.

I'm not convinced either way and admit to not having the understanding needed to technically question it, so it is people like me that need the documented proof before accepting it.

It is the way of the world, science is not accepted unless it has been proven and if someone joined this forum with the username of "Stephen Hawking" and laid out a new or modified Big Bang Theory, I would still ask for proof, wouldn't you? DG and YF.

Now I have a question:
In test number (7) the comment says

Quote:

not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems

Yep, I am curious about that too...
There are three specifications of that kind in the table. 7, 13, 17.
All of them are oils.
The others are (or contain) high quality petroleum derivates, just like gasoline and naphtha, with a viscosity and boiling point way lower than oil.
Maybe because of the viscosity?
Maybe because oils are much less distilled products than diesel?
The distillation tree is as follows, from the base product towards high quality products:

Crude oil -> Petroleum coke -> Asphalt and tar -> Paraffin wax -> Lubricating oils -> Fuel oils -> Diesel fuel -> Kerosene (jet aircraft fuels) -> Naphtha -> Gasoline -> Liquified petroleum gas (LPG).

If you look at the diesel additives on the market, all contains products that are higher grade than diesel (generally naphtha). Therefore adding to diesel, in a scientific way, naphtha or gasoline (light distillates) in cold weather is OK and approved.
But what about adding a low grade (heavy distillate) product like lub oils (and 2sO doesn't make exception) to diesel (which is a middle distillate)?
Maybe the tolerances of the post 2007 engines/high pressure systems are not compliant with a such low grade product(s) like lub oils?

Indeed, maybe what DiscoGeorge said about adding 2sO to past 20 years engines and their tolerances was OK, but what about those new engines and high pressure systems after 2007. Maybe it is too soon to tell...

hi chaps

been in the motor trade many years have been aware of the advantages of adding 2t

recently spent a lot of money( to me) on a newer recovery truck and started adding 2t at the specified dose, these models are prone to pump problems etc so my motto is nothing to loose and if it gives me an extra 50,000 miles then happy days


however i have been using carlube fully synthetic oil which is JASO FC

is that a cock up on my behalf?

The remark in the Diesel Place Study "not compliant with ..." is related to US-diesel technology, which is years behind European diesel engine science. But I have argued this in my earlier threads on this study.
Alex, you forget in your thoughts that the quality of mineral oil products are governed by its additives. The raw products itself are meaningsless.

YF

apples24

using a fully synthetic 2sO is overkill. If your rig is fitted with CRD and a particle filter, then use a semi-synthetic JASO-FC compliant 2sO such as Liqui Moly 1052.

If however your rig is older technology then any 2sO conforming to at least Jaso-FB can be used.



YF

sound subject knowledge on the 2sO topic amongst forum members is a very scarce commodity. What is worrysome though, is that there are members who shoot down advice by experienced contributors. This is to the total detriment of those forum members who are looking for well founded sound advice.

After 37 years in the motor trade and some years spent training the dealer sales and after sales force of one of the global (german) luxury car manufacturers, I have come across many such situations.

I can compare to the battery maintenance situation out there. In the last 37 years I have come across ONLY 4 persons who fully understand the complexity and the problematics of this topic. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

comment appreciated, i had that feeling of wasnt needed when found this forum post, for some reason it was in my mind i read somewere only fully synth was best



so am i ok to continue to use up the litre i have remaining and change over afterwards?

its an older 2003 model 2.4 transit recovery truck without common rail

apples24 wrote:

comment appreciated, i had that feeling of wasnt needed when found this forum post, for some reason it was in my mind i read somewere only fully synth was best



so am i ok to continue to use up the litre i have remaining and change over afterwards?

its an older 2003 model 2.4 transit recovery truck without common rail

I have been using the 2st mix for some time now and I'm quite happy with the results. The mix I use is currently Activo 2st which is readily available here in Scotland. Can someone tell me where I can get this Liqui Moly 1052. as I would like to give it a try!

Hi Dave

as stated some replies higher up, when I am back in SA I will get all the documentary proof and post it on this forum.

In SA all the big companies close down around 16th December and reopen after the 10th January.

So your patience will be well rewarded.

 With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

As far as lubrication benefits go, there certainly seems to be at least a possibility (pending proof) that 2T will help. But the claims made seem to relate to engines with very high mileage. Here in England, most private owners will do ten to fifteen thousand miles a year, and engines rarely get to go much above 100 000 miles. I'm not convinced that we need the promised extra lifetime reliability of fuel systems that very high mileage users in places like SA require. Most of the perceived benefits posted on here seem to relate to smoother cold running and improved fuel consumption, in which case the sensible view might be, that if it works for you, then use it; if it doesn't, then don't. Personally, I think I have detected an improvement, although this may just be subjective, and I'm therefore using it.
For commercial users with high mileage vehicles, lubrication improvement may be significant, and for this reason publication of scientific test results is certainly desirable.

Thank you DG  ______________________
2011 Full Fat RR 4.4 TDV8
2012 FL2 SD4 Auto HSE
2013 Kawasaki Versys 650

Dont know about folk not doing the 100.000mls, Every Oil burner I've had for the last 15 years has done well over that, just got rid of one with 130th last month and that engine had 2stroke since it was a baby at 40th.
I had the MOT test in Nov this year and the emissions were 0,49. I've reaped the benefits but at the end of the day as the say in Burkinafasto, it's your car, you do as you please, no-ones twisting your arm. Offset your Carbon emissions by boycotting Baked Beans and all Green Vegitables.

from what i see a lot of the fuel pumps and injectors these days only last 50000 miles in the uk, even bmw's are shot around 120,000.
naturally thats an average guess but it is quite familure to see pumps and injectors die, no one can deny that

everything else in the engines are stong, the pumps and injectors are the weak points, not exactly cheap to replace either

Hi apples24

that IS EXACTLY THE REASON WHY YOU MUST USE 2sO in your diesel engines.

We are sitting with the same problem here in SA. One of the bigger indie workshops strongly recommends this practice to his customers and those who follow it get in excess of 300'000-400'000km from their CRD components before rebuilding them.

It is not uncommon for a delivery vehicle in SA to do in excess of 200'000km per year due to the long distances and the high average speeds (within the law) that can be maintained. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff