yamaha-fan wrote:

When I read the comments of npinks and Dave (to mention the most obstrusive posts) I cannot help, but I have to smile. How can people who claim to have some brain and education do not use their brain and education and THINK! No personal discredit is meant with this statement.
Worldwide positive experience with adding 2-T oil to the diesel must at least let those persons start thinking about their iron rejection of 2-T oil to their tank. And npinks still believes that adding 2-T oil to the diesel will damage the engine or components therof. Npinks, representing this community as Moderator, you have not submitted any post in which we could reasonably assume that you have invested some thoughts in the 2-T oil discussion, but you have impressed us with stubborn statements hiding behind whatever guarantee-problems you fear, again without any proof of your knowledge of warranty and guarantee-issues. And you seem - sorry having to say this - not to be interested to learn and/or take the benefit of other peoples experience.
Of course I am a "no name" participant to this otherwise excellent Forum, as we all are. But this is the intention of any internet forum that things can be said and opinions can be discussed without the fear of legal consequences from parties that consider their interests disturbed. And myself are sometimes balancing between my professional duty and my personal opinion. And the questionable quality -to put it mildly- of so called DIN fuel, and the hundreds of (increasing) law cases I have/am attending with regard to HP-Pump failure, injector failure or engine break down, and the clearly noticable trend why such failures and break down have taken place have given me the strenght to discuss the 2-T oil/diesel fuel issue openly in this forum.
So please, let us return to being pragmatic, back to pro and cons and sharing of experiences.

YF

I'm so sorry, i didn't realise that been a moderator meant i had to believe everything i read and go along with your "knowledge" on the subject. I may have no law degree, you say your in that profession, and people must trust you in what you say you have been a party to through your job....

At the end of the day, I don't need to prove to you or anybody else why i want to stand behind anything but, you can keep going on about how good 2 stroke oil is for cars, but until it says to add it in any of my cars manuals I will refrain from adding it to this car and any future cars i purchase

As you might have seen I did try this in my first FL2 after having quite a long read and noticed no difference, thats not to say other haven't felt some sort of improvement, but i wasn't daft enough to broadcast on a public forum at the time, some do, often with enough details provided to be easily identified by any LR garage reading on the forum that i am adding a non authorised fluids into my cars fuel tank

so i'm going to use my brain and education and not go along with the crowd again, until OFFICIAL PROOF can be provide by somebody other than the so called experts on here, No personal discredit is meant with this statement.  Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

Hi guys

I had a long chat this afternoon with one of the top after sales technical guys of MBSA and we were discussing the pro's and con's of this whole debate.

We then were looking at the main reason of CRD component failure in SA. Like in Europe it is lack of lubricity combined with water contamination. Here we have to distinguish between handling impurities (SA) and hygroscopically contaminated diesel in Europe (Ethanol in bio diesel).

So in the end effect the main culprit seems to be water contamination which leads to a lubrication break down in the CRD system.

By just adding 1:200 ratio 2sO to the diesel, this can be totally overcome.

The oil companies as well as the motor manufacturers for a variety of reasons, mainly legel, may not officially condone this practice. The oil companies due to the legally required composition of diesel and the motor manufacturers due to possible legal ramifications resulting from using "additives".


It is like with the horse - You can take it to the water, but one cannot force it to drink.

The fact remains, that 2sO in the properly administred mix has only benefits for the user.

In Europe this might be difficult to grasp due to the legally enforced minimum quality of diesel fuel ...... With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Whats the difference between a so called expert on here and a so called expert at Landrover?
My so called expert at Landrover tells me that I should only use Landrover recommended products to clean and protect my Leather upholstery, well that's a load of bollony as there are a number of products on the market that much better than the advised products.
Yes you should use the recommended product if you know of none superior, but to say that none recommended products can damage the Leather is a scaremongering tactic based upon increasing sales of branded products.
If I told you to use neuteral colour Ladies Face Cream on your Leather Shoes, I bet most would tell me that a tinned Polish is better.

Who in their right mind is going to admit that there is or could be, a problem with the fuel. Offset your Carbon emissions by boycotting Baked Beans and all Green Vegitables.

In one of the forums that I participate is a member with an Audi A4 2.5Tdi with 650'000km with original injectors. It is run on 1:200 Liqui Moly #1052 2sO since new. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

I will stir the things up (again) with this, but...

Those injectors doesn't have moving parts inside. So are less prone to failure because of lubrication.
Lubrication is the main issue (at least for me) here, right?
Not improving cetanic figure for a cleaner burn.
Those injectors last (maybe) because of the side effects of adding 2sO.

So, I am still interested (like many others) in only the lubrication proof that 2sO is good.
Deep inside (and technical/engineering speaking) I know that it's good, but I am still waiting for the proof.
What about those pictures?

Hi Alex

you are absolutely right about the injectors. Apart from the piezo electric actuator, there are no moving parts. But with the wear and tear setting in on the pump, the absolute pressure on the injectors is reduced and that will aid in the carbon build up around the injector nozzle tips.

Hoewver the additives in the 2sO that remove carbon deposits will take care of that. So there is the answer to your question.

As far as the pics are concerned, this will have to stand over until next year, as I am tying up loose ends in the business ahead of my departure to Europe next week. With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

DiscoGeorge wrote:

you are absolutely right about the injectors. Apart from the piezo electric actuator, there are no moving parts.

One last word to fuel quality in Western Europe (incl. UK).
The refineries in Europe produce fuel in strict accordance with the DIN- and legal requirements. So no issue here.
But the fuel is filled in tanks to be transported to the whole saler or the petrol station (via road, rail or water). It is a known fact that the tanks used for transportation of fuel have also (previously) been used for transportation of liquid ammonia, methanol, 100% bio alcohol and the like. And those tanks will NOT be cleaned prior to filling with Diesel or Petrol. They will just be emptied as careful as the driver/operator thinks fit.
The next weak point is the status of the pumps and fuel tanks of the fuel stations. Condenswater and oil-slump have been found in many underground tanks with non-functioning filter systems.
This is the main reason why numerous independent fuel tests (in Germany) have revealed that the claimed DIN-fuel quality did not reach the consumer. The refineries do indeed have a great interest to ensure the quality of their products to reach the consumer. But we have a saying in Germany: too many cooks spoil the food. Unfortunately, any legal attempt to break the cause of fuel-impurification and to lay the finger in the wound was not successful so far. But we continue trying.

YF

Re. transportation.
Maybe first tank/truck will be a little contaminated, but subsequent shippments will be clean.
And I don't think that a shippment company will reallocate the trucks so quickly. Meaning today a certain truck will transport product A, tomorrow product B, then A again, etc. Once they commit a truck to a route/product, will keep them there for a time being.
I've asked a friend whose object of activity is exactly this. You know, at 25 km from my town is Petromidia Refinery, one of the biggest from Eastearn Europe.

alex_pescaru wrote:

DiscoGeorge wrote:

you are absolutely right about the injectors. Apart from the piezo electric actuator, there are no moving parts.

I was talking about the 2.5V6 engine's injectors, which are standard injectors. They aren't piezo injectors because that engine uses a standard mechanical distributor-type injection pump.

Hi Alex

those injectors are even more prone to carbon deposits fowling. This is due to the lower injection pressure etc.

I have got on my 300Tdi 255'000km, all original diesel system AND original turbo. this would not have been possible without 2sO.

Yamaha Fan is absolutely correct with her statements regarding fuel quality. Those of us who agree with YF have the benefit of a much better running engine, more redundancy etc.

I requote the horse! (See higher up)

Yamaha Fan I agree with you 100% re: the fuel quality. After 21 years in the Motor trade with two of Germany's biggest luxury car manufacturers I am familiar with the whole scenario.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

DiscoGeorge wrote:

those injectors are even more prone to carbon deposits fowling.

Hellooooo, lubrication, remember?..........
Before burning....

the two go hand-in-hand  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff

Yes, I know, but you and YF insist too much on the burning side, when the question is lubrication.
I know that helps burning a lot cleaner, because of the nature of the 2sO. Period.
We all agree on this issue.
But lets move on on the real issue: did it helps for lubrication?
Both you and YF said that you saw/have proof. But neither of you show us some....
I know (from my engineering training) that it helps lubricating, it's an oil after all.
But I didn't see until now some proof, official or not, that it helps in a high pressure system!??.
You know, any oil has its shearing point.
And it's at lower pressures than those in a high pressure injection system.

Let's talk about benefits of using 2sO before injection take place, not after.

alex_pescaru wrote:

Yes, I know, but you and YF insist too much on the burning side, when the question is lubrication.
I know that helps burning a lot cleaner, because of the nature of the 2sO. Period.
We all agree on this issue.
But lets move on on the real issue: did it helps for lubrication?
Both you and YF said that you saw/have proof. But neither of you show us some....
I know (from my engineering training) that it helps lubricating, it's an oil after all.
But I didn't see until now some proof, official or not, that it helps in a high pressure system!??.
You know, any oil has its shearing point.
And it's at lower pressures than those in a high pressure injection system.

Let's talk about benefits of using 2sO before injection take place, not after.

Hi Alex

in the meantime those of you who have a diagnostic computer (Faultmate etc), can do the following:

1. Take a reading on the variance in % of the various injectors and note down.

2. Add 2sO to the tank in 1:200 and drive out 5 - 10 tanks full.

Take second reading with computer and note down changes. Variances will be enough "Proof" to silence even the most vocal critic.  With kind regards
DiscoGeorge
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi with twin TrueTracs
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
And some more serious stuff