True enough J77 ………. so when is the actual Freelander replacement model going to appear I wonder (if ever)?  Life is not a dress rehearsal!

Who knows. I've been a big supporter of the DS and its let me down to be honest, LR have approached it with the 'that'll do mentality' a car that had so much potential has been spoiled by poor design.

I should've took notice of my own doubts, I had a Disco specced as a back up, but thought everything would be alright on the night, I was up at the dealers countless times changing specs etc couldn't settle. I've spent the past few months trying to convince my self that it's the car for me.

Through my ownership I've tried to be as honest as possible, it isn't a bad car it just could've been so much better. An expensive mistake perhaps but we live and learn, normal service will resume at the end of the month once my big bad boy arrives. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

Landroverfan1 wrote:

Getting back into the Freelander after a day in the DS was wonderful. It felt like coming home. The ride height, comfort, intuitive buttons. Welcoming back an old friend.

One week left with the DS, pick up its replacement on the 28th, can't wait. 21MY Defender 90 S 3.0 D200

In the latest edition of Land Rover Monthly, Patrick Cruywagen states: "Now the one thing that sets this Discovery Sport apart from the Freelander or anything else ever produced by competing manufacturers is that it has full Terrain Response, including Mud and Ruts..."

Perhaps my Freelander is one of a kind but I definitely have a mud and ruts setting. What I don't have is Rock Crawl (and neither does the DS). Furthermore there are many other vehicles that now use their own form of Terrain Response.

He goes on to say: "This is the part where Freelander owners send me hate mail.", while discussing the DS's off road ability as better than the FL2. Despite the fact that the approach, ramp and break over angles in the FL2 are (according to the official figures) better than the Discovery Sport, I think this apparent "hate mail" by Freelander owners (or at least this one) may have started earlier in the article.

Ah the wonders of special programmes like Terrain Response! Motoring journalists do get into a froth over such gizmos.
For most drivers who regularly uses 4 x 4 vehicles off road its basically just electronic fluff to make up for the lack of a decent low range box and caters for drivers who have no idea about off road driving. The HDC for example may delight journalists on some carefully recced "steep slope" but in practice it is much to fast for a serious rough terrain decent - not enough grunt from the gearbox, you have to use the brakes. When I get stuck in my Freely2 it makes no difference whatsoever what Terrain Response setting I have dialled up. The limits are dictated by lack of ground clearance and the angles together with total loss of traction - no traction is no traction no matter what the little dial or buttons are set at. The DS has a more sophisticated system than the Freely2 - that is it. When I meet some sophisticated and intelligent rocks presumably in a DS they will be asked by one of the on board computers to kindly roll over to allow me to pass without leaving the underbelly behind.

Journo's dont ya love em, all the LRE sites have been modified to make them a little softer in places to allow the DS to go around.
In all honesty though, its target market are the wannabe aspiring lower middle classes who think that having them a DS on the drive gives them social status, its highly likely that a tiny proportion of the sold cars will ever venture further than a field on the occasional trip out to a rural show.

I have tagged this onto the end of the existing thread too, this is a Freelander forum and one thread for the DS is enough

I believe the newly-introduced 50-grand dynamic version of the DS does have some form of rock crawl in its terrain response, so that's perhaps what the author intended to say.

But as said above, all these electronic aids are just to compensate for inadequacies in the basic drive train, or in the component which sits behind the wheel. Which is still the most capable of all the Land Rover products? The Defender. And what electronic aids does that have? An optional traction control, and that's it.

For off-road use the best drivetrain is still a manual box with low range and proper diffs with a lock or two. That will get you anywhere all the electronic aids can, and without leaving you stranded just because a wire somewhere came off a sensor, or costing you a fortune for Haldex repairs, etc!

But, of course, the real purpose of all the electronics is for bragging rights down the pub - they're not there to be used!

Last edited by pab on 22nd Sep 2015 12:35 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Very interesting comments regarding Terrain Response. I could do with a personal TR when it snows or there's mud as I seem to behave like Bambi on ice. Yes, it's all very well having a car that can cope in slippy conditions but it's getting to the car! I agree about the Defender's ability and when I first did a LRE I ensured it was in the Defender so as to get an understanding of how diff locks etc work.

Putting approach angles (etc), wading depth and ground clearance aside, is the TR no better than the systems used in say the Allroad or the XC70? That if you're going across a muddy field or a bit of snow any of these vehicles will do (and likely all get stuck at the same point).

I don't have the same level of knowledge of the Audi and Volvo systems as I do the LR systems, however, I'd still expect the FL2 to do better than the others for a number of reasons. Firstly, it's tyres are likely to be better-suited to the conditions. Secondly, Terrain Response doesn't just lock up the Haldex, it also uses the brakes to control wheelspin, sort-of simulating a dff lock. Then there's the Haldex pre-load mechanism which means that the FL2 always moves off with 4WD rather than switching to it when slip is detected.

So of the electronic generation the FL2 is amongst the very best, but I'd still rather it had a low box and locking diffs!

isnt the new XC90 supposed to be competent off road 

Yes. Remember who used to own both LR and Volvo - there seems to be quite a bit of LR technology finding its way into both Volvo and Ford products these days! Some new Fords (including Explorer iirc) have Terrain Response now, with a system that sounds very like LRs.

A few months ago, the editor of a well-known 4X4 magazine and I discussed my comment below. Am a huge fan of Land Rover and the breadth of their capabilities but it's always fascinating to learn more about how TR works as per pab's comment which goes into a little more detail on how it works (for which huge thanks) and why it may (or may not) be better than other 4x4 systems.

"It is almost a pre-requisite that Land Rover reviews have to include a phrase or sentence that states they are the best off-road vehicles, unmatched by their rivals. But where is the actual evidence for this? Some reviewers, who know a little more about off-roading, comment on ramp, brake and departure angles but is this enough to separate Land Rover from its competitors? I drive a Freelander 2 and am fully aware of its capability but is the traction control better than say a BMW X3? On a muddy track are you honestly better in a Discovery than say a Volvo XC70 or a Porsche Cayenne?"

It's not just the traction control, though, Tyres make a big difference, as does the suspension set-up and even the rigidity of the frame to keep everything in its proper place. Taking everything into account I believe LRs do still have a big advantage over most rivals off road.

The Cayenne is an interesting one - it's based on the Touareg, which is a very capable vehicle, but I suspect its sports suspension set-up and high-performance tyres would leave it somewhat compromised off road, on snow, etc. For that reason I'd rather have the Touareg. Or a Discovery.

All 4 x 4s are definitely not created equal - just have a look at the clips (on previous threads here) making fun of the Honda CRV 4 x 4 system which failed miserably to deliver any power to the rear wheels just when power there was needed on a simulated slippery hill start test. Honda would say in defence of their system that it protects the drive line from damage but the effect is to make that 4 x 4 system fairly useless. The Freely2 is a beast off road or in snow - but it has limitations and fancy software programmes do not alter the fundamentals for a reasonably competent driver despite the emphasis placed on them by journalists.