It's just been announced on the news that Nelson Mandela has died. Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
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RIP he did a lot for people Former Mod/Member, with the most post & Chicken George Arch nemesis

RIP Nelson

Ironically, it's the premiere in London tonight of the movie starring Idris Elba LL.B (Hons) - University of Derby
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I worked in South Africa in 97/98. Some people loved him, others hated him. The Afrikaans said he was a terrorist. Some blacks couldn't stand him but that was down to tribal issues. It will be interesting to see how the different black tribes react to this news. All in all very sad news. Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
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plan to watch that new film just out re his life, etc

gain more insight into his achievements and ethos.

Iain

I must admit to being one of the "Hang Mandela" group rather than the "Free Mandela"s back in the days of his imprisonment because of his connection with the ANC and all they did to the white and black population during apartheid.

However, since his release I've been totally converted to him. The Christian forgiveness and love he showed to the whole South African population was inspiring to see. I just hope that following his death the situation out there doesn't deteriorate any further than it has so far.

God bless his memory. A good case for creating a new saint. Ours - 2008 Stornoway Grey HSE Auto
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"Nelson Mandela was the head of MK, the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.

Mandela refused to renounce violence. Amnesty International refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence."

In 1985 State President P W Botha offered Nelson Mandela, a conditional release from the prison sentence. The condition of his release is that he renounced violence, and violent protest. He refused."

Says it all really. Don't know if it says more about the SA people and the world that they forgave and forgot his crimes rather than the other way round. Not sure if you'd lost a loved one that you'd want a Sainthood or a Nobel Peace Prize for him.

I have to agree with Legoman, that is how it was told to me when I worked in SA I saw all kinds of stuff, it was really eye opening as it wasn't at all like it was portrayed in the media. Things changed when Mandela came to power but nearly 20 years later are things any better? Still got massive corruption, rape muggings and murders etc, people still living in poverty. SA still has a long way to go Black MY2013 SD4 GS Auto, Wood Company Armrest, Freel2 sticker.
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Great summary Legoman. Over the years the media have chosen to ignore many parts of his life.

Legoman wrote:

"Nelson Mandela was the head of MK, the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.

[b]South African police statistics indicate that, in the period 1976 to 1986, approximately 130 people were killed by what the source calls 'terrorists'. Of these, about thirty were members of various security forces and one hundred were civilians. Of the civilians, 40 were white and 60 black.[17][/b]

Mandela refused to renounce violence. Amnesty International refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence."

In 1985 State President P W Botha offered Nelson Mandela, a conditional release from the prison sentence. The condition of his release is that he renounced violence, and violent protest. He refused.


Mandela ACTUALLY refused to agree to any demands made of him whilst he remained a prisoner. Eventually De Clerk freed him at a point when a bloodbath was becoming imminent. This act followed by Mandela's persistent extolling of fellow black Africans to not behave violently saved many deaths amongst both communities.

Says it all really. Don't know if it says more about the SA people and the world that they forgave and forgot his crimes rather than the other way round. Not sure if you'd lost a loved one that you'd want a Sainthood or a Nobel Peace Prize for him.

Not worth getting into a heated debate TBH, but your conclusion is a bit indulgent. I am not saying the apartheid regime wasn't bad, nor that is wasn't responsible for murders and deaths, just that Mandela wasn't the person the media portrays him to be, far from it. He certainly kept some dubious company. Gadaffi - Lybia, Charles Taylor - Liberia, Faday Sankoh - Sierra Leone as well as the Leaders in Cuba and Iran.

The thing is, your not arguing with what's written, just adding that according to SA Police statistics, only 130 were killed by terrorists during a period. Okay, fine, I'll take your word for it.

And you added that Mandela wouldn't agree to any demands whilst he was a prisoner. Okay again. I think we can all draw our own conclusions to that information.

I suppose the bottom line is we will all believe what we want to.

Having grown up and lived through those years in South Africa,there was certainly good and bad by both the SA government and the ANC.Nelson Mandela and his comrades were certainly prepared to kill civilians of any race to further their cause.Mandela certainly moderated his views when he was released from prison and became in my view a great leader.I have a deep respect for how he governed .RIP Nelson. MY2013 GS SD4 Baltic Blue

I honesty fail to see how anyone that kills or is party to killing another person to further a cause is worthy of any respect, no matter what he subsequently went on to achieve.

You want a person who stuck to his principals and abhorred violence on an even bigger scale, try Ghandi. Not even in the same league.

Mandela spend may years in prison for his deeds and beliefs.He learnt from this and left prison a much better person,when he may have emerged very bitter.He choose to embrace all South Africans in a spirit of reconciliation and in doing so probably averted a lot of bloodshed.For this I believe he is due respect. MY2013 GS SD4 Baltic Blue

Due respect for being a terrorist, for signing off the death of 19 with countless others injured (1983 church street bombing which he admitted in his book). No, I don't think so.